Sonos is fine if they understand and agree with the limitations.

Wire that house. This is our job, and there is always a way when someone wants to pay for it. We do complicated retrofits all the time.

Cut some holes. Have some fun. Make a nice profit.

And it's a good opportunity to "future proof" the structure by running smurf tubes throughout while the walls are open. More profit.

Im all about retro work and they are ok with drywall repair but I'm talking probably close to 100 patches. Heading out there now to tone out and find a solution.

so what!!! thats why we do custom work! i cant count how many times i ripped down walls and ceilings to get it done!

I agree with others about patching holes. There are a lot of drywall guys who can whip out the repairs in no time. What costs the most money is the number of trips and not the holes. The more the holes the cheaper the repairs per hole because they have to put so many coats on.

You need to figure out if the customer is looking for a distributed video option or if it's more audio driven. If video is needed then you have to cut the holes. If not, then do yourself a favor and put in Sonos. It will be so much easier and quicker then putting something in like Russound or NuVo solutions. Stamp mentioned needing a wire to every zone player but it's simply not needed. Put a NAS in the bid along with an iTouch for everyone in the family. Install an IP controlled power strip for the network equipment and you are set.

I get it Ed. I know this is what we do but especially with your approach of not "making a big deal out of it", I worry about the customers reaction when they come back from the store and see the actual damage. I always worry one day that the client will freak out and pull the plug on the job with holes everywhere. People can be fickle and I try to avoid confrontation. Ripping apart their new home floor to ceiling for three stories is bound to get some "oh my god" responses. There is not a single access point, attic, basement, etc. All wood and tile flooring. What if I get half way through the house on my route and a giant steel beam obstructs progress. This stuff happens. Now they have holes and no speakers. If only I was as awesome as you Ed, than I could pull this off. Im obviously not, so I am looking for suggestions on alternate product to see if something suites the needs of this project reliably.

If they were going on vacation and I could patch it before they got back it wouldnt be as big of a deal.

Audio only. Video only in the the Media Room, Kitchen, Master. All local source with coax drops. No problem.

I am leaning towards Sonos for the audio. I think it will be perfect for this guy.

Can anyone PM me a disty or are they direct?

im going to disagree with you, if these are the type of customers that money is really not an object then place in the bid a week long trip to bermuda and have your run of the house so there is not the OMG you F*%$&d up my house get the hell out. Although i really think they would understand what this type of job entales.

I get the OMG factor all the time but i tell my customers its under control, this is normal and once were through you will never even know that we were here. I understand that its not going to fun or that you run into things that are out of your control but there is ALWAYS a fix.

Seriously, use this opportunity to smurf tube it. This would defiantly be an acceptable reason to cut holes everywhere! i have a painter/handyman i work with that does patching for me if its anything over 10. He charges me 50 bucks per 10 patches and is so good he gets it done in 2 trips. He then gets to talk to my customers about painting and 9 times out of 10 they use him to repaint. I mark it up another 50 so to my customers its 100/10 patches and i dont have to worry about it.

or use sonos :)

Sometimes its best to open a few really big holes than a slew of little ones for the sake of the home owner, it looks "cleaner" if you get what I mean and have the area virtually spotless clean. Once I have had to run a conduit outside of the basement to the roof/soffit because the house was built by an evil genius, filled with soy and some other environmentally friendly stuff, there was not a single gap to fish a hair. But I get what you mean Sound, I have walked away from a few similar situations because at the end it was easier for the customer to get a stand alone wireless option and the install pill was too tough to swallow.

I guess this is the difference between men and boys!

I'm not awesome cory. I'm just not a pussy! And I have done this so many times it's a non issue! I manage the clients expectations and do what I got to do! It's really no harder than that! Sometimes you have no choice but to watch the sausage get made!

That just reminded me from a scene from Seinfeld...I'm a man. lol

We just walked out of a customers home the other day as geek squad was walking in to fix their computer. We told them "the big boy work was done" and walked away. It was pretty funny!

I think many of you go overboard because of the over-the-top customers you have. Sometimes a customer simply wants music and doesn't need 100 new drops with smurf tubing everywhere. I agree that this is the best route but a lot of customers simply want something easy to use and they don't need full blown Crestron system.

Just sit down with the customer and truely find out what they want. If they are ok with wireless internet, cordless phones, and Sonos then do it and walk away with a happy customer.

Sonos is direct only. You don't need much to get signed up with them and it is super easy to setup. If you do go with Sonos, post back and we will help out with spec'ing any parts and pieces needed. The only thing you might need is an electrician to relocate outlets into the upper kitchen cabinets to run speakers above the kitchen cabinets or in the cabinet soffits. It's without a doubt the best wireless audio system with the best interface!

Sound,

I agree with the rest of the others. My fault is I sell through my wallet which means if I wouldn't waste my money on it I tend to advise my client not to do something.
I have learned when you have a "player" (= client who has a shxtload of money to spend) the player gets off on spending money for the very best. If the client says "I want the best" then give it to him/her. If you think there are going to make too many holes then lay out the installation as objectively as you can and basically give them 2 or 3 options. Option 1 is the very best system that does every thing but you are going to cut a hundred holes. Option 2 doesn't do this or that but you only cut 50 holes and Option 3 has very few holes but you can't do X, Y or Z like Option 1 or 2.

Then you let the client pick which option he likes and do it. That way you can never feel guilty if he wants to spend HIS money on a ton of retro labor on the system HE chose.

The other thing I have learned is that there is always going to be an installer that may be better than me as far as seeing 3 dimensionally how to run wires. I have learned the best/worst lessons from electricians through the years. Last fall I saw an electrician run a wire on a slab to a brick fireplace that was totally awesome and I now have added that technique and his number to my skillset.

Good luck. Remember, lay out the objective options and let the client choose. You can't lose.

I've never said it in this kind of situation... these are the jobs that we thrive on... that our reputation is built on.

Tell them (confidently) what you will need to do, give them an ESTIMATE of what it's going to cost, and go to it.

We have a client from 12 or 13 years ago who purchased an Audio Ease system from my boss before i started working for him. I was there a few years ago swapping the AE for crestron. She told me the story about why she chose my boss over the many others who toured her home.

She told me how everyone else walked in with a clipboard and a tape measure, spent 45 minutes looking around and sent her a proposal for volume controls and speaker selectors. My boss went in and spent the whole day and sent her a proposal with everything that could possibly be done given the current state of electronics.

She wanted to spend money. She wanted the features. Her wallet was doing just fine and she chose my boss because he was offering her what she wanted.

Fast forward to when i did the Crestron upgrade for her. "no on the kscape, i dont need that". We installed it anyway... on a "trial basis". As i was packing up i gave her a 2 minute demo and showed her how she could watch movies and listen to music in any room etc. I ripped all her CD's and DVD's for her so she could test drive it. She called up and agreed to buy it before i made it home that day. She laughed saying "you guys know me better than i know myself".

Don't be afraid to to sell these clients what they are asking you for. No holes are being cut right now and you can always scale back if they decide they dont want holes cut in the walls.

By the way.. we had to totally demo the clients house to put in the new crestron system mentioned above. She has her own painter and he followed right behind us putting everything back the way she had it. The day i left she hugged me in the hallway. Drywall dust and holes in the walls are long forgotten as she enjoys the new toys we installed.