Brandon,

With touch panels changing everyday is that the only reason to select a control system.  I don't think so.  I can use a third party screen or if C4 comes out with one we will use that, the other choices for a larger screen would have cost as much as the whole C4 system, not a good value.  I need status and some simple  commands from these screens, I could probably make the iPad work if I split the house in half (that's how the blueprints are) or make the global commands simple on a small view.  Nothing all that hard.  No job speced today will use half of what is speced, products are changing a little too fast.  Six month from now we'll have to make a decision.
Plus do you really think anyone, including my client is going to let me walk away and leave someone else to take the fall, cheap shot bud.  I am fully responsible for this project and know it will fall squarely on my shoulders at the end.  The client is working everyone on this job and has a little too much micro-management going on but I am committed (or should be) to seeing it through to the end.
I would much rather be focusing on other parts of my business but this has taken on a life of it's own.
If you have some questions for me, go to this link [Link: cepro.com] and ask away for the world to see.

Boy this thread is getting crowded with all the opinions and egos :-)

Getting, where have you been?

Ok, which gets to the real issue that I am tring to understand. Why are you putting audio controls in powder rooms? For the scenarios you described I would think the powder rooms would be turned on and have the source selected with a Party mode that should also set the correct volume level. my thinking is most home owners don't want to go in the powder room to turn on the music for a party.

It's all monday armchair drivers and backseat quarterbacks up in here.

Mostly just to control volume for the errant couple at a party sneaking in a quickie in the "big house", come on we've all done it, kind of a christening.
But really, I just like to have a volume control at each area or speaker group, the sources are limited, it's more of a courtesy.  The powder rooms would come on with the party mode.  Done right, no one would ever touch a button at a party and most would be disabled anyway.

Hey, Sig. Did you noticed that you made the news?

As some may recall I have been critical of JAP products so permit me to first state that Ed would probably cringe were he to read what follows. I stopped into the JAP booth at CEDIA and I did not find the picture quality objectionable. Were there artifacts? On the fringe but these were something 99.99% of clients would not notice.

I did not introduce myself and I was not wearing a name tag that identified me as Alan or Audible Solutions. I also stopped my Mark's booth but he was busy selling and I saw no need to inject my ego into his business especially when he was paying for the priveldege of selling his products.

Amir is akin to joe Kane. He holds a higher standard than I. I want it to work and I want the check writer to sign the check. That's it. If it gets a picture on the screen and that image is good enough 97% of my jobs are not high end, state of the art video systems using 2kx4k projectors. I did not find its image quality objectionable and I suspect few clients will complain.

I have other issues with JAP products but let's not pull this thread further off topic by relitegating matters that cannot be settled by debate.

On the other hand, the argument that the problem was prototypes or a product that was still under development does not fly. One can only judge by what is put on display. You put the image on to prove the quality of your product. If someone found issues with it than you cannot seek refudge in poor setup or incomplete product development. It's why there are trade shows. It is to evaluate products. If your first impression isn't good don't complain.

I'll also add that most cannot tell good from bad video. It's why so many 14K+ displays are sold and never calibrated. Few can make out artifacts till they are pointed out. Evolution has made most human eyes suseptable to movement. We had to avoid animals who wanted to eat us or to quickly locate prey and turn it into food. Fine detail is not what most humans are good at.

To sum up, I did not find JAP's image quality objectionable and image quality would not be what prevented my purchase of a JAP product.

As for Mark, well, we are again finding out that inexperience in a large product has serious consequences. Mark, I'm told is a fine man. He is personable and he is entertaining. His wife seemed lovely. Being a nice person or someone to stand a round and debate politics or the Jets' superior play this season while drinking a round or two is very different from publicly placing yourself as an expert in project management and large scale project system design

Unlike Mr. Jones, Mark would be the one discussing F Scott Fitzgerold with lawyers and crooks. Though he'd be far more popular than I he'd still have no idea what was happening or why.

Alan

I still can't believe the lions didn't jump all over this thread after the words C4, simple and limited options were mentioned earlier in the same sentence :)

That was a softball waiting to be hit out of the park. Then again, this thread has some serious Deja-vu going on.

[Link: myfoxatlanta.com] ?

Alan,

Next time please step up, let me shake your hand and put a face to all our colorful conversations.  And yes, my wife is lovely and a perfect partner.  Having been in business together 18 years she is easily qualified to mange most average jobs out there.  2ndRick tells me people just don't know who I am or my background in this industry.  From where I stand the only people that needed to know my background are the ones paying me money.
Hard as it is to believe I don't like talking about myself but here goes.  I started out as a kid building heathkit and dynaco tube stereos 40 plus years ago.
After working for a cable company for a few years I realized I preferred to be self employed, working for assholes and drunks just wasn't a fit.  I started doing commercial work for the phone and cable companies, small jobs like the Whidbey Naval Air Station and 20 acres business parks.  I was eventually hired by the leading high end audio company in Seattle to do their prewire installs (my first project for them was a 20,000 sq ft home with 12 vantage enclosures).  The owner of that home is now one of my best friends and a business partner in Xspot Products, must have done OK on his job huh? Once that company was trained and stopped using us I started doing integration on my own.  Susan, the light of my life, owned a retail electronics store she had worked at since she was 12 and managed since she was 17.  This part of the story is a little sappy so get a tissue, we started dating and two weeks later at the last Chicago CES (the wake on the lake) I asked her to marry me, two months later we married in my home town in Montana, great party, big boat, reggae band, 250 people, tubs full of beer, 90 degreees, yahoo.
Shortly thereafter we opened a systems integration business downtown Seattle with an Art gallery, again great party space and attractted lots of high end clients.  We grew at one point to 25 employees doing mostly highend homes and some commercial.  Average house 10k to 20k with our biggest being 44k.  I invented Xspot after sheetrockers buried or moved 37 wires on 14k home for a microsoft client.  Salez Toolz came out of a need working with my sales staff.  I have worked on multi-million dollar penthouses, yachts (my favorite), condos and mega homes. 
The client I am working for on this job liked the work I did on his little 17k project 15 years ago, wanted something that worked and tracked me down.  Currently I am also working on a 10 k project in Mexico and helping design another 120 custom mcmansions between 6k-20k.
If this isn't enough experience for you then we are all in a lot of trouble, how much is enough.  I don't want to have an integration company but working as a consultant/designer is fun.  Sorry you don't like what I'm doing but it pays well, I enjoy it and the customers are happy, tell me what I'm doing wrong.
My software was just chosen as one of the top picks at CEDIA and you Alan, can attest to how busy we were when you came by our booth.  Sales are skyrocketing with our new iPad app and matrix server.  I am still finishing up the new version to satisfy Apple but, all in all, a good life.
I get to be a mad scientist/inventor, software developer, trainer, consultant all based around our industry and beyond.  Given all that, you're telling me I'm doing something wrong, really?
I never want to be what people expect, but just be myself.
Careful Alan, if we meet you might actually get to know me and that would shoot your whole perspective to hell.
P.S. I don't follow sports at all, who has the time?

First off I hope this project succeeds, otherwise we have another wealthy man telling all his buddies not to waste money on a POS insert name here system.

If the installing/programming contractor bends to your design, and something does not perform as expected what is it exactly that you plan on doing to fix the problem? If they are not able to recreate the C4 GUI on a Vantage panel how are you going to step in to resolve this issue? Its not so much that I think you are intentionally walking away, but more what can you do about it at that stage?

If this is really supposed to be where this industry is heading, then this is a very important question to be answered.

If an engineer designs a bridge and it collapses who's fault is it? If the "installing" contractor cheaped out on the concrete its going to be their fault, if its built to the spec then the engineering firm better get the lawyer on the horn.

Who is this guy calling at 10am on Sunday when the super bowl party is about to collapse?

Better yet how are you going to handle it when the installing contractor throws your design under the bus every time an issue pops up?

If the installing contractor is presented with a full scope and bids for and is awarded/accepts the project, then that contractor is obligated to perform said work without protest. To do otherwise impugns the integrity of all parties.

If the scope changes significantly - all bets are off.

B,

The contrator we hire will have a chance to change the design based on their experience and product lines.  I will choose a company that brings something to the party not just fill a role, think the word "team".

Mark