Good. 'cause I am not sure if I could have handled being in love with you :D.

A late but hopefully useful update on the video quality issue.

I missed JAP booth at CEDIA but am at CES and did go to see it. I did not need to walk into the booth to be recognized as the guy who at Infocomm who complained about the video quality :). I was invited into the booth and with PS3 remote control in hand playing BD content, I went to examine the video.

I paused the video three times to properly examine the video. In the first two instances, I could not find any difference between the source and the video routed through the Gen 2 product. On the third attempt, I found a tiny amount of distortion in smooth areas of the picture. I need to emphasize that this was quite tiny and if the source was not there, I would have thought it was due to compression artifacts on the Blu-ray disc (which were also visible).

So in my book the devices passes the test of "virtually lossless." It should satisfy all but the highest end users.

Alas, one functional deficiency remains and that is the fact that the box only has stereo PCM audio. I am unclear why it is difficult to transmit the bitstream. Cascading another solution for audio is possible but opens one up to possible lip sync issues as the delay through JAP might add to other video pipeline delays in the display and make the situation bad. The person at the booth said he had played PS3 games on it and the delay through JAP alone was not high enough to make it uplayable.

Oh boy.. have they gotten to you Amir? I typically take your opinion as gospel when it comes to hardware. I have a project where JAP2 would be perfect. High profile client where reliability is #1 and performance #2.

There is a clear difference in PQ between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 products.

Before, I would not use Gen1 on any screen larger than 55", with the new stuff, only a videophile would notice the difference even on a large screen.

It is not perfect, but the video quality is not the limiting factor it once was for large screens and it is a great solution when you need it's flexibility for a project.

Given that not very long ago we thought just having line level video distributed was the coolest thing ever, these new products have set the bar so high there really isn't anthing to complain about.
Are we really trying to compare a local source to one being driven through multiple boxes down a cat5 or 6 wire for possibly hundreds of feet.  We are so spoiled today wiith great product that can practically do anything.  The only limits are the programmers and our imaginations, hardware is available to make it happen.
Now we just have to support the guys coming up with this cool stuff so they stay around. 
Build systems using your core products and go make some money this year.  Looking forward to a great 2011!!

At the request of the HDMI.org group we have put the 2G devices through full HDMI compliance testing as specified by the Authorized Test Center program for manufacturers ( [Link: hdmi.org] ). We have received our passing report as an HDMI Repeater device. This testing was done under the current HDMI 1.4 specification. While this was a fairly expensive process, we understood that it was necessary for some of the larger companies and projects to feel comfortable with adopting the Just Add Power solution and recommending it to their customers. I believe this will also be welcome news to most RC members.

Please don't believe any other manufacturer or blogger who tells you that the Just Add Power solution is not "legal". They are either misinformed, or intentionally presenting a falsehood to their audience. Please do send me a PM if you are at a class or event, or perhaps come across a website where such false claims are being made, as we will want to address their slander and or libel directly.

Thank you,

so it is fully 1.4 compliant?

Hi Ed, the problem is that realistically there is no such thing as "fully 1.4 compliant".  Heck, you can't even print the words "HDMI 1.4 COMPLIANT" on a cable.  HDMI 1.4 is the current standard that tests are performed under, but no product is required to support all the new optional "features" in HDMI 1.4 to pass the HDMI 1.4 compliance certification (yes, it's a mess/joke). Frankly, I find the HDMI 1.4 specification to be mostly unwanted "feature bloat" that doesn't really provide anything useful for a distributed audio/video matrix solution. I can address the context for the most common HDMI 1.4 features listed at [Link: hdmi.org] :

1) Audio Return Channel - this has nothing to do with our distributed video model. The audio sources are already at the head end with a JAP installation, so you don't need to return the audio to accomplish the task. For those interested in surround sound support we can now support all the surround sound formats in a distributed environment with our new Surround Sound Manager module that starts shipping next quarter (was on display at EHX last week). We'll be posting full details and specifications on Surround Sound Manager in a couple weeks. There are some preview pics of Surround Sound Manager over on IP at [Link: integrationpros.org]

2) Home Ethernet Channel - this is about using your TV to become your Internet Router for directly attached HDMI devices.

That has nothing to do with a distributed video application, not to mention that nobody has seriously embraced this optional standard besides the cable makers claiming they support it.  I've not seen any cable boxes, satellite boxes, media players, or anything else that have added this optional "feature".  They all still have RJ45 Ethernet ports.  The last thing in the world you want to do is have your internet streaming device lose its IP connection because the viewer changed to a different source or somehow turned off the TV/internet connection. The sources are in the rack, the Internet is in the rack, why bother with sending the internet to the TV and having the TV send the internet back to the centralized sources over the HDMI connection?

3) 3D - We now support all the 3D Standards (Frame Packing, Side-by-Side, Top-n-Bottom) with our new 3D Manager solution (more information on that coming out later today on CE PRO). This is truly a distributed implementation of 3D content that is backwards compatible with ALL existing HD TV's and Projectors. With 3D Manager you can now "upgrade" any/all of your customers existing displays to show and enjoy 3D content.  You can read more about 3D Manager at [Link: justaddpower.com]   This "game changing" solution doesn't address the current shortage of desirable 3D content, but it does allow all your customers to get in the game without having to purchase a new TV or projector.


4)  4K Content support - we're waiting on somebody to deliver actual 4K content and screens that make sense before we consider supporting such an extreme standard.  When you look at the viewing distance charts like this
the thing that jumps out at me is that your customer would pretty much have to put their nose on the screen to see the difference between 1080p and 4K content.  How many installations have the seating 3 feet away from the 60" plasma?  Even a very wide screen projector at 4K resolution would require the user to sit so uncomfortably close the the screen to see 4K resolution that they couldn't see the whole video frame.  I don't see this as becoming a desired standard for our target users.

5)  Content Type Reporting -  – Real-time signaling of content types between display and source devices, enabling a TV to optimize picture settings based on content type.  I have not heard any Custom Installers say they are planning to integrate this into their automation solution.  Are the content providers going to provide enough categories to make it worth the effort?  What happens when the cable company accidently classifies a sporting event as a movie (not that the cable company ever makes any mistakes)?

6) Additional Color Spaces – Adds support for additional color models used in digital photography and computer graphics.  Good grief, we have yet to see the first Blu-Ray disc be produced from any studio with "Deep Color" content and they think we need more color models?  The JAP devices support deep color, which is more than enough for the intended application of these devices.

7) HDMI Micro Connector – A new, smaller connector for phones and other portable devices, supporting video resolutions up to 1080p.  These devices can be used with the JAP solution using simple converters.

8)  Automotive Connection System – New cables and connectors for automotive video systems, designed to meet the unique demands of the motoring environment while delivering true HD quality.  If anybody wants to install an HD over IP matrix in their stretch Hummer we can use Automotive Adapters!

Hi Guys

I have just pulled off my first JAP job using the 3 in 1 tx plus 2 single tx's and 2g receivers and the GSM7224 switch. Great with RTI driver, excellent picture quality. Here's my problem : Lip Sync! What is the answer to overcoming this problem. Clearly the JAP system takes a long time to process the video data and all my sources are in the rack with analogue audio outs to multi room zones using the RTI AD-8.

Here in the UK the Sky box has audio delay from 20ms to 200ms. I cannot get audio to sync with video and even if I did, I have different rooms with different distances, as well as a Theatre which gets audio from HDMI.

I need all the help I can get.

Thanks in advance!

Richard

Contact Ed at ed at justaddpower dot com. He is great at tech support. The only problem may be he is heading to Vegas for CES.

Hi Richard,

LONG POST ALERT

Solving Lip Sync problems in a system where the audio is distributed independently of the video can be a challenge. This is especially true when the audio is being extracted from the legacy analog outputs of the source, while the video is being extracted from the HDMI digital outputs. There are several points in the system where the audio/video signals can become out of sync, which may cause the overall delay problem to be different for each customer.

Sync problems in the Source - There are sometimes specific channels in a STB (Set Top Box) that will have a very noticeable delay between the audio and video, even when listening to the combined HDMI signal. This type of problem is part of the broadcast system involved. Solving this problem where the delay is only on specific channels calls for a programmable delay system that can be adjusted on the fly by the control system.

Sync problems out of the STB - Sometimes the analog audio outputs are already way out of sync with the HDMI signal the moment they leave the STB. In the States the DirecTV satellite receivers are notorious for this, where some boxes are in sync, and others are horribly out of sync. Unlike the Sky box in the UK, these STB's offer no audio delay adjustment at all. We have heard of dealers having to swap out their DTV receivers multiple times to get past this issue.

Sync problems caused by processing the Video over the LAN - The Just Add Power HD over IP encode/decode process takes about 37ms, which is within the acceptable tolerance for human hearing to compensate (under 50ms is the standard we have heard from other A/V pros). Some Ethernet switches can introduce an additional delay to the video signal, however your Netgear GSM7224 has a 1G to 1G latency of .002ms ([Link: netgear.com]) so that should not be an issue unless your Netgear Switch is not working correctly. A way to test this would be to temporarily connect a 2G TX/RX directly together, bypassing the switch. You can do this with a simple CATx cable joiner at the rack. If the audio delay is suddenly improved, then you have found a problem with the switch. This could either be a hardware problem requiring replacement of the switch, or simply a switch configuration problem caused by a configuration error. You might want to log into the switch console and dump the configuration details to a text file. Then email it to Daniel at Connectivity UK to see if he spots any configuration problems. You can also email it to support @ justaddpower dot com. It should also be noted that the LAN cable length is not going to have any measurable effect on the signal processing speed. The IP packets (electricity) travels through the copper cables at the speed of light so there is no way the cable length would cause a noticeable delay in the video.

Sync problems caused by different make/model HDMI monitors - This is often the source of the most frustrating issues. It has been our experience that different TV's process an incoming HDMI signal at a different rate. with the most extremely slow TV's being over 1 second behind the fastest TV's. When you add an HDMI AVR into the mix, the delay can be much longer. We have even seen differences between various models of the same brand TV. You can demonstrate this yourself by connecting TV's to a simple HDMI signal splitter. When you have the audio enabled on all the TV's, you will detect the differences between how quickly each TV converts the HDMI signal to the image/sound on the screen. This is just one more "feature" of the HDMI standard that puts it on the list of most hated specifications developed by the dark lord. I think there should have been a measurable specification that all TV's process the incoming signal at the same speed. If you don't have the luxury of being able to specify that all of the TV monitors are identical, then you are faced with the prospect of having to set the audio at a compromised point some where in the middle.

What can be done to solve the problem?

Using an analog audio delay device between the source and the audio matrix is your best choice, if not your only choice. We have heard good feedback on the use of a Behringer FX2000 to do this job. It has up to 5000ms of delay, supports stereo signals, and can be controlled via a MIDI port if you need to change the delay for various channels. It does require you to use RCA > PHONO adapters to connect to the audio ports. If you are willing to run with MONO audio, you could use 1 FX2000 to fix 2 problem sources. I found the FX2000 on Amazon.com today for US$125. If you have a dealer account with a Behringer distributor you can probably get it for less.

We are exploring other ways to solve this problem and will post any updated information to this forum.