You are to be commended for that.


Was that a spelling error or a put down?


My wife would care far more about the fabrics and the chairs then the electronics - that would not make her wrong. Different people have different priorities. That does not make them wrong to allocate their money as they see fit.

And what is the "correct" system? For whole house audio my brother opted for Crestron and he is happy with it. I opted for Sonos because I knew my wife would be happy with it. Is either one more "correct" then the other? IMO no.

The CI is going to care about the electronics otherwise he probably wouldn't be working in the field but he should not expect the client to share his passion, perhaps they will (that's always fun) but they may not. That is life.

WhiteVan Lifestyle,

Since you are going to have enough in the deposit. spend the extra time and effort in wiring the place for ridiculous amounts of future upgrades. Document and hand it off with future proposals to the client.

You may get to sell TWO lighting systems is the way I look at it.

You may got sell two intercom/music systems.

Have fun or GTFO, because you will be no good to anyone involved.

My advice to you is to document it well, label EVERYTHING and make sure the client has a copy of documentation. Also make sure that every cable is terminated to something... no stashed wires. Then knock this job out ASAP. Dont cut corners but get it done fast.

This will allow you to collect payment and walk away from the project without anything to think about or worry about.

My concerns are not with the product or the client but more with the electrician/interior designer couple. These sorts of nightmare teams can cause a lot of trouble and when/if the client ever figures out they are morons you dont want to be at the end of the job waiting for payment when the client decides everyone is screwing them and lawyers up.

Crestron is the obvious answer.... to pretty much every question in life :D

Alan and I finally totally agree on something! That's why I use my real name, too.


And in this thread, interior dictator and interior desecrator. Great tags, everyone! But even better was this:


this, of course, can only happen along the seashore where fresh mussels can be obtained.


I once more totally agree.

The only way to do a job and not be disappointed is not to know better -- the state of the decorator and her lecktrician husbin -- or to be a hack who works for dollars and has no pride of workmanship. Just as it's hard to get a cabinetmaker excited about designing, building and installing new kitchen cabinets for you made out of plywood, few of us would be proud of this job.

I'd need an attitude adjustment to do it, too.

And I'd hate not only the product, but also myself, for having to deal with any problems that arise. In fact, this might be the worst part of the project when it happens.

Sounds like they aren't beating you up on price so that isn't the issue, more that the system doesn't fit the job. Linda like seeing someone wearing really expensive ugly clothes, not your taste but you would still take the money.

Jeff will do a great job and use the unity system to its limits to give the client something worthwhile but if the client wants it and is willing to pay take the money. We aren't AV hall monitors just business people who like to give a value to our products but sometimes have to do as a client asks.

So long as it works as sold and the client receives value it is a fair business transaction. I run into this all the time, a client this morning wanted to load up a large project with Radio RA instead of Homeworks until the husband and I sat down and did the labor calcs to show the hidden costs of doing 180 line voltage switches and lack of conditional programming. Sometimes you can help other times you just do your job as best you can and bite your lip.

This could have been worse, I know dealers who would have been proud of this deal, Jeff just wants better for his clients.

How dare a client tell a CI what they want! These people are stupid and we are smart.



Simple as that....Right?


Install whatever you like and tell the client to pay up.....

Who is the expert here?

I think a little explanation to the customer is in order.

You bid on the job, you got the job. Usually good news.

In the end your reputation is on the line, no matter what.

Don't overcharge for a inferior system.

Do it the right way, or don't do it.

Your good reputation is not worth it.

I think its better to be honest.

So Mark is saying it's OK to "polish a turd" and sell it to the client because that is what they asked for.

lipstick on a pig is still lipstick on a pig, IMO.

Mr. Stanley, Have you ever considered writing a book with your stories?

A book? I think he should start a blog! And i found the PERFECT wordpress template for him.

http://dreamamp.che4to.ru/

Tell me thats not the perfect template for someone whos been around 2 channel for so long.

Guys, not everyone wants a full-blown automation system. Get over it.

I would have taken the screen back. How often can you buy a $1500 unit for $350?

Dreck is a Yiddish word. You can find its definition by using Google. the meaning behind the neologism, Dreckorator, I think, will then become clear.


A. The OP did not lose the bid, he won it. He is getting paid 4 times cost to install the wrong system. He is going to take this job to the bank yet he's unhappy. In his opinion the system is wrong for this type of home.

You ask what is the right system? This may mean different things to different people but putting volume controls in a 4 million dollar.12000^ft home might be "the wrong system." It's not Crestron vs C4 vs CQC vs Sonos. But putting Crestron panels into a system based on Sonos would be the wrong design. Forcing a client to walk into the basement from the MBR on the second floor to turn on the system and press play on a CD player might be seen as a bad system design.

The issue is often money but in this story it's not money.

Why should a client pay for a lighting system? It's not for any of the wiz-bang features that system offers. These are the unintended benefits of investing in the system. You install a lighting system because of the aesthetic benefits it makes possible. A single gang keypad that does the work of 6 gang of switches helps to make the interior design more beautiful. Then by using dimming you can use light as part of the interior design, again to make the interior more attractive. Use of colored led lighting or traditional load types at differing intensities are enhance the look of the home. I suspect your wife would come to see this and eventually come to support its inclusion in your home, not because you can automate lights based upon dusk and dawn, or conditionalize a button press. She see the investment in the right system as one more purchase in her beautiful home.


It is very possible to use Sonos as the backbone in a 12k home. But there is often more behind a system design than DA. One of the advantages of a control system, such as Crestron, is that you can hide the ugly security keypad, hide the large thermostats and use temperature sensors ( sometimes located behind pictures so they are not seen ), place all video gear in the basement so the only visible intrusion on the interior design in the display. If the display being viable is a problem there are mirrored solutions, motorized coverings that can be used to hide them. If you dislike seeing speakers you can have invisible speakers.

Most of these solutions are costly. But they are based upon providing electronic solutions that introduce the advantages of technology without having it intrude upon the interior design. For some the price of these solutions pushes them out of reach. But having a Compose solution in a 4 million dollar house is a poor decision that pushes the economic interests of the dreckorator above those of the client. The point is not the relative value of the 1000/yard fabric vs the electronics systems, it is the benefits of aesthetics. If you are going to spend 1000/yard on fabric you might also value solutions that enhance the elegance of that home. I feel confident that your wife would see this long before you, not because you are dumb but because you'd see this investment as part of your capital budget rather than the decorative.

It's not that the client cannot afford the aesthetics. They can. It's not that they don't appreciate them. They are at least paying for them. If you put in a single 3 ton compressor to cool this home you'd not dispute it was wrong. If the lighting design was based on a single florescent pendant light in a 16 x20 room you might suggest this a valid choice even if it goes against what most of us who work in these homes find to be typical.

A contractor who takes pride in his work will chaff at putting in the wrong system even if he's well compensated. The OP has stated he is going to be paid very well to install this system. But he is watching a greedy dreckorator poach into territory she is not competent because she sees it as an opportunity to make money. The issue is that her poaching is ending with a less aesthetic result. A contractor who cares will be frustrated by this and will say so. It's what the OP wrote and I cannot blame him.

Alan