C4 is great for typical jobs and can actually accomplish MUCH more than a lot of people think you can do (if you know how to code your own drivers), but you have to be aware of "non standard" rooms. If you have more than one TV in a room, or if you want really granular control of a device, then it might not be the best fit. The whole concept is designed around the "best practice" being one display and one audio device per room (although you can do two of each, it just gets cumbersome). You can do any behind the scenes programming you want (you could have a button press turn on a whole sports bar with 50 TVs if you wanted) but you have to keep in mind how the end user is going to interact with the system.

Doing a normal system with equipment you're familiar with and you have good drivers for is REALLY quick to program.

Install equipment
Add rooms and equipment drivers to programming (drag and drop)
Identify equipment (click button on device, enter IP address, etc)
Connect AV and control connections in programming (drag and drop)
Hit "Refresh Navigators"

At this point your system is probably 90%+ complete.

I cant wait to get my hands on the pmc3 and the new os they have coming out. Will open alot of doors i think!

C4 the main reason we didnt go with them is there non care to the CI, they want to be availible to the masses and with them attempting a partnership with best buy/Home Depot i think they are shooting them selves in the foot.I know some of my clients would be pissed if they walked into HD/BB and saw there "automation" products there. C4 would also have some difficulty doing some projects that prodigy doesnt have any issues with (smaller of course)

C4=Harmony remote lines
Crestron = love :) haha.

someone said it, you would be better off putting RTI in and programming it then going with C4 and the limitations it has. I really love crestron and the tech support they provide is top notch. Something that i didnt feel i would get with C4 because when i called to get info on them it took them 10 minutes to get me to a sales guy, buy that time i had already made up my mind lol. I did let the guy go through his sales gimmick though.

I expect it will be a toss up with the system you're describing with a few issues at the margins. You get a 3x remote with Prodigy but OSD with C4. C4 offers native iTunes and Rapsody integration. Prodigy would force you to add hardware and push the cost up to accomplish the same features.

Prodigy wizard would code faster than C4 in this system.

What you need to think about is how large and uncontrolled is your geek gene? Playing at the low level means doing what these systems want to do not what you want them to do. C4 will limit your options while Crestron will not. This difference could be a good thing or bad depending on that geek gene.

I code in Simpl and templated Prodigy to control 6 zones of audio, one theater, lighting, 2 zones HVAC and Squeezebox. Prodigy composer will do all but the last. Crestron's iPod dock is much better than C4's but C4 integrates into iTunes. Crestron's lighting products and thermostats are better than its competitors. Does this superiority translate into sales? You need to figure out which company fits into your long term business plan. C4 is going into Home Depot and Best Buy. Crestron into distribution. All will force downward pressures on job pricing though there will be opportunities to fix systems other contractors ruin.

By putting its wares into distribution Crestron has announced that moving boxes is its ultimate goal. Once that goal was to see successful systems installed. But the era of dealership levels has to vanish if Crestron's going to move the number of boxes it wants. It's the precise reason major CE manufacturers put that wares into distribution. National sales managers demanded sales that dealer networks could not meet. Putting the product into any one's hands helped to elevate sales figures. Lutron has done this, every CE manufacturer has done this, and now Crestron has resorted to distribution. There are no protected lines. Manufacturers don't care if you are competent to install their system. They want those profits from box moving. The advantage of Crestron is in their hardware, particularly HDMI, is very, very good. But it is also expensive in an era of value consumers who demand value solutions. Crestron wants to maximize its chances that someone is going to sell their solution.

And they are now charging for certifications for sale of some of these products--one more profit center. You may be forced to purchase through AVAD--much as Lutron forced its AVAD dealers to purchase through AVAD. These details seem murky. Think less about features and more about which system allows you to maximize your ability to get clients to sign and your abilty to quickly finish and obtain that final check.

Alan

Well put Audible!

Rahim,
what are you looking for? What control solution do you offer now?
C4,
dealers what does C4's entry level solution cost? What is the retail for a single Surround Sound Zone minus programming?

I am a Prodigy dealer and think the system builder aspect of it is a complete hindrance. It is so freaking convoluted it drives me crazy. I have been working in Simpl for the last few weeks and can duplicate any URC or RTI system, which I could not do in system builder. At home I'm running 2 Surround zones and 4 more audio and video zones. I ran the same system in SB but it was crazy when it came time to compile.
27 minutes in SB
Less than one minute in Simpl.
The shorter time made the learning process much less painful because I could test code almost instantly. Testing commands from Debbuger (I'm sure its available with SB code) makes life worth living.

I chose Crestron for the same reasons the others have stated. I will say I have been asked for C4 Five or Six times and Crestron never, take that however you like just thought I'd share.

Appx $650-$699 msrp

Thanks Jim. I think that price point is awesome. It is a direct competitor for all of URC's line with a ton of scalability.

What model hardware does that include?

Control4 HC300 Controller is $699 with remote. What is the retail on the Crestron PCM2 + remote. I currently do Elan g! and they don't come close with the price point. I love how simple and scalable it is, but I can't compete with Control4. They will be launching a new smaller controller soon, but I am sure the MSRP will be at $1000 minimum and no 2 way remote.

Currently pmc2+ prodigy system (processor and touch screen remote) is $1170 retail.

They are coming out with new processors and remotes that should be shipping this month that offer osd panels via component out and a new lower end remote (still with a color screen but not touch - instead it's controlled via blackberry style scroll wheel on side of remote. Felt very solid and easy to use in cedia I'm excited). That new processor with osd control panel and lower end remote will be retailing somewhere around $960.

I really don't know control4 but I do know these prodigy processors are extremely flexible and powerful. And now that they can communicate between processors it really makes for a powerful low end system.

Just as long as you not using wizards. Wizards such no matter the brand.

When u say $699 with remote do you mean the Sr-150? Cause that kinda seems like a joke. Sr-250 looks fairly useless as well.

They need to put a real color screen on their wand remotes.

Nope, $699 with SR250. Has full two-way text LCD screen, very high contrast so easy to read in any light. Can navigate music library, Rhapsody (I think, haven't tested first hand), fav stations, etc on it.

$649 is HC-200 + SR250


Not for $199 msrp with full two-way...... The price of the handhelds really hit me when I did my first 8 room video distribution system. 8 T2-Cz's for $7,200 msrp or 8 SR-250's for $1,600... (keep in mind, this is with two-way comms)

and yes, the SR150 IS a joke...LOL

They need to make something in between the 250 and their larger touch screen.
Something in $500 range with bigger color screen.

Can't rely on osd for everything. That's what always bugged me about C4. Wanna check the levels of your lighting , enable osd and stop watching tv to do it.

Trust me, EVERY missing piece in their lineup has been requested over and over and over in the dealer forums.... You've got the $129 SR-150, the $199 SR-250 and then the $1,000 (was $1,499) portable 7" touchscreen with nothing in between the two.

And "for the record", when we pulled the trigger on C4, Prodigy was just getting started and looked like a bad C4 clone, and HomeLogic was just too expensive for an entry level system (and they didn't even have a remote so we'd still have to do RTI/URC). I know if I was making the decision again right now I would have to do a LOT of research before committing to one or the other.

A client recently asked me about C4 over a higher end crestron system I quoted him with adagio for audio dist, av2 processor for system control, crestron lighting for entire apartment (5 bedrooms plus entertainment areas kitchen bathrooms etc), Lutron shades and several video zones. Using mtx-3's as controllers and tmpc-4 as on wall touch screens.

I told him I though control 4 was ugly and not as powerful (in better words then that) and he said his contractor used c4 in his show home and loved it.

I responded with - I'm sure he is very happy with the system but in the end a system is only as good as the company designing and installing it for you. We did a lot of research before we chose crestron etc etc.
I hope I don't loose out to a c4 system. I don't think they are on same playing field when you go high end, and even now with prodigy and their new product coming out this month - I just love the crestron world as of late.