More on Bob Groden:

Groden has served as a photographic consultant for the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA), that concluded that the assassination of President Kennedy "was probably the result of a conspiracy."

Groden testified at the O.J. Simpson civil trial,[5] that he has no formal photography training and that is not certified by any professional photography organizations nor knows the names of such organizations. He has never taught any photography classes, nor has he published anything with respect to photography.

During the O.J. Simpson civil trial, Groden appeared as an expert witness and testified that a 1993 photograph of Simpson wearing Bruno Magli shoes at a NFL football game was a forgery. Even after thirty additional photos by a different photographer captured on the same day of Simpson wearing the same clothes and shoes surfaced, Groden still maintained that the original photograph was a forgery.[6]

Groden can also be found on many days of the week in Dealey Plaza up on its north grassy knoll, where he freely discusses his research and thoughts about the assassination and sells his books and videos.

The truth is out there if you wish to find it.

Most people don't know that the term "Grody to the Max" was just some Valley Girl somewhere hearing somebody say "Groden to the Max" (a term that is used to describe conspiracy theorists like Gizmologist09. For example: "Gizmo is Groden to the Max") and thinking she heard "Grody".

This is 100% true because it's in a book I'm gonna write.

Sorry i missed all the humor. I was in the hospital for a possible heart attack and just came home tonight.

Just to clarify one LAST time, I am not a conspiracy theorist.. All I have ever intimated was that there were a LOT more questions than accurate answers.

With that, I will cease to get involved in any further discussion on this subject.

Enjoy.

Bill

I saw JFK the other day at a shopping center talking to Elvis. Boy were they having a big laugh!

Bill, hope you are OK and feeling better.

TY. I passed the stress tests and CT scan with flying colors. The docs are not sure what happened.

The most relevant evidence in proving Greer the fatal assassin is tracking his left hand before, during, and after his shot. Greer's left hand, left the wheel some time before frame 241 and didn't return until after the shot. He turns around the first time only after securing the gun and gaining back control of the limo with his right hand on the wheel. Both his hands were off the wheel for at least one second, something so incriminating that researchers either ignored or outright lied about.

Had that tool, Bob Harris included these early frames, his goofy video would've been debunked/dead on upload. Greer simply passes the gun and then his left hand goes missing for less than 1.5 seconds. We then silly fake reflections that depict a cartoon of Greer shooting JFK. Greer's left shoulder does NOT rotate to the right in Zapruder but does so, clearly in both the Nix and Muchmore films. His left arm comes down right after the shot, which directly contradicts the video effect (in Zapruder) that flickers about near and below the top of the door. [B]In the last film, (Muchmore) see the headshot and then scan to the left and note Greer's left arm retracting, consistent with Nix[/B].

1:09 [url][Link: dailymotion.com][/url]

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Look under 'Beats Fists Against Car'. "The third shot he heard might have been a Secret Service man returning the fire, he said. "The Senator was two or three cars behind Jfk's, with LBJ. Look above 'Could Smell Gunpowder'; He smelled gunpowder all the way to Parkland Hospital.

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[Link: jfk-online.com]

Many eyewitnesses reported hearing a shot inside or near the Presidential limousine. The driver, Bill Greer was seated two rows in front of and slightly to Jfk's left.

1.Bobby Hargis (Police motorcycle outrider, left rear of limousine):
Mr. Stern: Do you recall your impression at the time regarding the shots?
Hargis: “Well, at the time it sounded like the shots were right next to me,” 6WCH294.

2. Austin Miller (railroad worker, on triple overpass):
Mr. Belin: “Where did the shots sound like they came from?”
Miller: “Well, the way it sounded like, it came from the, I would say right there in the car,” 6WCH225.

3. Charles Brehm (carpet salesman, south curb of Elm St.): “Drehm seemed to think the shots came from in front or beside the President. He explained the President did not slump forward as if he would have after being shot from the rear,” “President Dead, Connally Shot,” The Dallas Times Herald, 22 November 1963, p.2

4. Officer E. L. Boone (policeman, corner of Main and Houston Streets):" I heard three shots coming from the vicinity of where the President's car was,” 19WCH508.

5. Jack Franzen: (south curb of Elm): “He said he heard the sound of an explosion which appeared to him to come from the President's car and ...small fragments flying inside the vehicle and immediately assumed someone had tossed a firecracker inside the automobile,” 22WCH840.

6. Mrs. Jack Franzen (south curb of Elm): “Shortly after the President’s automobile passed by…she heard a noise which sounded as if someone had thrown a firecracker into the President’s automobile…at approximately the same time she noticed dust or small pieces of debris flying from the President’s automobile,” 24WCH525.

7. James Altgens: (photographer, south curb of Elm):“The last shot sounded like it came from the left side of the car, if it was close range because, if it were a pistol it would have to be fired at close range for any degree of accuracy," 7WCH518.

8. Hugh Betzner, Jr. (south curb of Elm, nr junction with Houston): “I cannot remember exactly where I was when I saw the following: I heard at least two shots fired and I saw what looked like a firecracker going off in the president's car. My assumption for this was because I saw fragments going up in the air,” I also remember seeing what looked like a nickel revolver in someone's hand in the President's car or somewhere immediately around his car 19WCH467



"Handgun used"

"1. Dr. Charles R. Baxter, in Bill Sloan. JFK: Breaking the Silence (Dallas, Texas: Taylor Publishing Co., 1993), p.92: "Although Dr. Baxter…declined to be interviewed for this book, Baxter did issue a brief comment in October 1992 through the school's public information office in which he described the throat wound as being "very small" and looking as though "it might have come from a handgun."

2. Dr. Charles Wilbur: “Interpretation of the fatal head wound by several attending surgeons suggested a high velocity handgun bullet fired at close range,”

3. Iona Antonov, “On the Trail of the President’s Killers: part 2,” New Times, 1977, pp.26-30: New York Daily News quoted friends of John Rosselli to the effect that Oswald a decoy “while others ambushed” Kennedy from closer range.

4. Dr. Robert McClelland: "The cause of death was due to a massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the left temple," (CE 392).

5. Parkland Dr. McClelland's testimony as reproduced in Hearings volume 6, p.38: "Dr. McClelland judged that the wound in the President's skull could be expected '…from a very high velocity missile…with a heavy calibre bullet, such as a .45 pistol fired at close range…' This would particularly apply to the skull '…where there was a sudden change in density from the brain to the skull cavity, as it entered. As it left the body, it would still have a great deal of force behind it and would blow up a large segment of tissue as it exited.'"

6. A.J. Millican: “It sounded like a .45 automatic, or a high-powered rifle.” <19WCH486>

7. S.M. Holland: “It would be like you’re firing a .38 pistol right beside a shotgun, or a .45 right beside a shotgun.”

8. “Garrison says assassin killed Kennedy from sewer manhole,” New York Times, 11 December 1967, p.28: Report of Garrison claim on WFAA-TV in Dallas – “The man who killed President Kennedy fired a .45 caliber pistol” and that the bullet entered the “right temple.” Gunman located within manhole on north side of Elm Street. Garrison had just taken possession of a set of photos showing cartridge case being retrieved by unidentified man, under noses of two Dallas police officers, on south curb of Elm.

9. Photo referred to by Garrison contained within Garrison Tapes documentary, timed at 01:22:04:15.

10. Joachim Joesten. The Dark Side of Lyndon Baines Johnson (London: Peter Dawnay, 1968), pp.248-249: Garrison set to release previously unknown set of photos “which saw a federal agent picking up a large caliber bullet from the lawn on the south side of Elm St, at the spot where Kennedy received his mortal wound. The bullet, which was previously identified as .45, was found amidst splotches of dark grey matter which came from Kennedy’s head…” p.249: “clock above TSBD, clearly visible in one of the pictures, reads 12:40.”

11. Statement of Hugh William Betzner, Jr., Warren Commission Hearings (WCH), Vol. 19, p. 467, taken 11-22-63:
[Link: jfk-online.com]

I was standing on Houston Street near the intersection of Elm Street. I took a picture of President Kennedy's car as it passed along Houston Street. I have an old camera. I looked down real quick and rolled the film to take the next picture. I then ran down to the corner of Elm and Houston Streets, this being the southwest corner. I took another picture just as President Kennedy's car rounded the corner. He was just about all the way around the corner. I was standing back from the corner and had to take the pictures through some of the crowd. I ran on down Elm a little more and President Kennedy's car was starting to go down the hill to the triple underpass. I was running trying to keep the President's car in my view and was winding my film as I ran. I took another picture as the President's car was going down the hill on Elm Street. I started to wind my film again and I heard a loud noise. I thought that this noise was either a firecracker or a car had backfired. I looked up and it seemed like there was another loud noise in the matter of a few seconds. I looked down the street and I could see the President's car and another one and they looked like the cars were stopped. Then I saw a a flash of pink like someone standing up and then sitting back down in the car. Then I ran around so I could look over the back of a monument and I either saw the following then or when I was standing back down on the corner of Elm Street. I cannot remember exactly where I was when I saw the following: I heard at least two shots fired and I saw what looked like a firecracker going off in the president's car. My assumption for this was because I saw fragments going up in the air. I also saw a man in either the President's car or the car behind his and someone down in one of those cars pulled out what looked like a rifle. I also remember seeing what looked like a nickel revolver in someone's hand in the President's car or somewhere immediately around his car. Then the President's car sped on under the underpass. Police and a lot of spectators started running up the hill on the opposite side of the street from me to a fence of wood. I assumed that that was where the shot was fired from at that time. I kept watching the crowd. Then I came around the monument over to Main Street. I walked down toward where the President's car had stopped. I saw a Police Officer and some men in plain clothes. I don't know who they were. These Police Officers and the men in plain clothes were digging around in the dirt as if they were looking for a bullet. I walked back around the monument over to Elm Street where they were digging in the dirt. I went on across the street and up the embankment to where the fence is located. By this time almost all of the people had left. There were quite a few people down on the street and crowded around a motorcycle. I was looking around the fence as the rumor had spread that that was where the shot had come from. I started figuring where I was when I had taken the third picture and it seemed to me that the fence row would have been in the picture. I saw a group of men who looked like they might be officers and one of them turned out to be Deputy Sheriff Boone. I told him about the picture I had taken. Deputy Sheriff Boone contacted superiors and was told to bring me over to the Sheriff's Office. Deputy Sheriff Boone took my camera and asked me to wait. I waited in the Sheriff's Office and some time later, an hour or two, he brought my camera back and told me that as soon as they got through with the film and they were dry that they would give me the film. A little later he came in and gave me the negatives and told me that they were interested in a couple of pictures and implied that the negatives was all I was going to get back. To the best of my knowledge, this is all I know about this incident.

A damn good case if we must throw out the films, I would say:

It took mario marcello 3 years to conjure up that malarkey. Don't fall for it guys. He is trying to trick you.

Lets look at this from two logical angles...

First, the most powerful man in the world can't get a blow job in his own private office without someone finding out. Do you really think you could pull off something like killing a president and keep all the people needed silent?

Second, even back then, do you think the secret service would pull out a pistol in an open convertible in a parade, full of highly influential people, slow down, turn and shoot the president, without one person in the car or the crowd seeing it and saying something?

[url][Link: amazon.com][/url]

Murder from Within Foreword by Tyler Newcomb

“That which is most simple and obvious is the hardest to fathom” E.A.
Poe

How It All Began

I remember it like it was yesterday. It was early summer in 1966 and I was
sitting at the breakfast table with my father, Fred T. Newcomb while he was
reading a front page article in the L.A. Times written by Robert J. Donovan.
It was a review of a new book written by Edward J. Epstein entitled Inquest.
Suddenly, Dad got up and started pacing the kitchen floor. “My God,
someone else may have shot Kennedy” were his words. That was how it all
began.

For the next 8 years nearly all of his spare time and money was devoted to
the subject. With the partnership of Perry Adams it eventually culminated in
the writing of Murder From Within in 1974.

Dad and Perry wrote Murder From Within after years of hard work and
thousands of dollars in personal expense. I witnessed this first hand while I
was in college at ASU in Tempe AZ and helped out when I could (for
example buying them the Warren Commissions 26 Volumes and Exhibits
for their use and study and venturing to the National Archives in
Washington DC for documents and to Bill Greer's home in nearby Maryland
(the driver of the Limo that day) to try to interview him in 1973. During this time Dad and his two associates Gil Toff and Roy Dennis telephonically interviewed nearly 50 witnesses comprising 30 hours of tape. Many of these interviews became the basis for the book. One cannot listen to some of the Dallas Police officers interviewed (who smelled “gunpowder right there in the street” and heard shots “right next to me”) and not come away convinced there really was gunfire from within the motorcade. One cannot listen to 2 police officers stationed at Parkland Hospital who were standing next to the Limo and who each saw a bullet hole in the windshield and not become convinced of evidence tampering by the Secret Service.

When the book was just about completed they printed up @ 100 copies at a personal cost of far more than $1000 (in the 1970's an enormous expense for their modest incomes and lifestyles). Not For Sale was explicitly stamped at the beginning. All copies were mailed to prominent Senators, Congressmen, FBI Agents and other law enforcement personnel for the express purpose of seriously reopening the case. Perhaps the 1976 House Select Committee on Assassinations came to be in some small measure from someone there reading Murder From Within? He and Perry were asked to testify.

I often wondered about that and also wondered what motivated my Dad to
do what he did by not trying to market and sell this incredible story. It didn't
make sense to me at the time. I am more pragmatic than my father.
Eventually I realized Dad was not motivated by greed. He was an Idealist on
a mission. After all is said and done (what with all the critics of the critics
complaining about the "money making motivation" for their books) that is to
be admired.

During this time I was in a traveling Rock Show Band The Gringos and
nearly every town we played in I would do a JFK Assassination slide show
and film and audio tape show. A primitive Powerpoint presentation so to
speak in 32 different States at all the Night Clubs we played. I would guess
hundreds of people over the years saw this or heard about this "theory" and
believe it. Nearly Every time I ask them to take their eyes off Kennedy and
watch the Driver while projecting the Zapruder Film (we had a bootleg copy
from Jim Garrison 7 years before Geraldo showed it on TV) a gasp and
groan comes out "Oh My God...he did it". The "optical illusion" on the film
of the Driver turning, aiming, firing and turning back to drive at the moment
Kennedy's head explodes is mind shattering. What are the odds such a thing
could actually happen at that exact instant on the most important amateur
film ever made? The "gun" however upon close frame inspection appears to
be part of Roy Kellerman's hair. But is it? (Fig. Forward -1)

No one can prove it either way because the film was in possession of the
Secret Service and if Dad’s theory is correct they were busy altering the film
itself creating a new original obliterating their complicity in the killing.
For the better part of forty years all of us have been scouring the landscape
for a gunman other than Oswald. We've looked in trees and bushes the sewer
system the Dal-Tex building the overpass everywhere except the most
obvious place, the car itself, which conveniently and by design became both
a portable crime scene and the "get away" car.

All along it was right there in front of us. Our eyes can't believe it. "That's
preposterous" is the first reaction. But it's really the only theory that answers
the oft asked question why did Jackie frantically try to get out of the car?
Was she going for help or trying to retrieve a part of Kennedy's skull? No.
The first law in times of danger is self-preservation. As Lenny Bruce so
inelegantly put it..."She was hauling ass to save ass".

Over the years the 100 + copies of the book became an underground cult
rarity and "must have" in the JFK Assassination Research and Collector
community. Copies of it were cheaply Xeroxed in Canada and illegally sold
from there for $30. These copies made the rounds between researchers and collectors alike.

For years and years I have been asked by scores of people if they could
purchase a copy of the manuscript Murder From Within. I've always politely
declined and told them I only have my one personal signed copy # 95 but
that perhaps someday it will be released and published. That someday has
finally arrived. It is the fondest wish of myself, my sister Valerie and Bonnie
Adams (Perry's widow) to have it legally and professionally printed and
published while Dad is still alive (although ailing). What did Dad say when
we told him about this from his convalescent bed? He smiled and said
simply "get 'er dun".

If you are reading this for first time and all you know about it is "the Driver
did it" theory be prepared to find a lot more to it than just that. Read this
knowing it was written years and years before anyone else had pointed a
finger at the Secret Service and Lyndon Johnson. This theory out of all of
them is the only one that can truly hold together as far as answering the 3
major questions: Why did it happen (motive), Who was responsible and
most important How was it covered up and a scapegoat framed.

Who could have done such a thing and gotten away with The Crime of the
Century? The "simplest explanation is the best" or "Occam's Razor" which is
an old Lawyers Maxim and certainly applies in this case. Only a small,
brutal and fiendishly clever group led by the only person driven to benefit
from the murder directly could have accomplished such a dastardly deed. All of this is certainly not without precedence in history. Going all the way back to Caesar and several Roman emperors (who were done in by their inner circle and by their own praetorian guards) and on up to Napoleon (arsenic poisoning?) Huey Long, Benigno Aquino (army airport security), Anwar Sadat and recently Indhira Ghandi.

Once the power of the Presidency was obtained Lyndon Johnson could and
did control the flow and manipulation of the evidence and also had the
umbrella of cover that if it were exposed it could quite literally collapse the
entire US Government. If exposed as an illegitimate President guilty of a
murder conspiracy the country very well could have descended into a new
civil war. Most people who "knew" kept quiet knowing full well that this is
truly "national security" and must never be exposed lest the entire country fall into complete uncontrollable civil unrest. Did Jackie tell Bobby what shet hought? That the car stopped during the shooting? That there was a large exit wound in the back of his head and an ear shattering sound in her left ear combined with awful smell of gunpowder? Did they decide to go along with the official story and wait until 1968 to win back the Presidency and expose it then? We all know what happened to Bobby, don't we?

Lots of speculation and still no facts

Connally said he saw the fatal shot and quickly corrected himself but his reaction when looking at Greer proves he slipped up. Watch him hit the floor in horror once he realized Greer shot JFK. The Governor, logically starting turning toward the driver because he was braking before he shot the President.

Obviously, at least the major wound that I took in the shoulder through the chest couldn't have been anything but the second shot. Obviously, it couldn't have been the third, because when the third shot was fired I was in a reclining position, and heard it, saw it and the effects of it, rather--I didn't see it, I saw the effects of it--so it obviously could not have been the third, and couldn't have been the first, in my judgment.

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So I merely doubled up, and then turned to my right again and began to--I just sat there, and Mrs. Connally pulled me over to her lap. She was sitting, of course, on the jump seat, so I reclined with my head in her lap, conscious all the time, and with my eyes open; and then, of course, the third shot sounded, and I heard the shot very clearly. I heard it hit him. I heard the shot hit something, and I assumed again--it never entered my mind that it ever hit anybody but the President. I heard it hit. It was a very loud noise, just that audible, very clear.

GREER FIRED RIGHT OVER CONNALLY'S HEAD and when he realized Greer fired it, he hit the floor, terrified. WATCH THE GOVERNOR.

[url][Link: acorn.net][/url]
Before killer Bill Greer shot jfk, he braked the limo to an almost complete stop. Notice the motorcycles and the follow-up car come to complete stops.

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1) Houston Chronicle Reporter Bo Byers (rode in White House Press Bus)---twice stated that the Presidential Limousine "almost came to a stop, a dead stop"; in fact, he has had nightmares about this. [C-SPAN, 11/20/93, "Journalists Remember The Kennedy Assassination"; see also the 1/94 "Fourth Decade": article by Sheldon Inkol];

2) ABC Reporter Bob Clark (rode in the National Press Pool Car)---Reported on the air that the limousine stopped on Elm Street during the shooting [WFAA/ ABC, 11/22/63];

3) UPI White House Reporter Merriman Smith (rode in the same car as Clark, above)---"The President's car, possibly as much as 150 or 200 yards ahead, seemed to falter briefly" [UPI story, 11/23/63, as reported in "Four Days", UPI, p. 32];

4) DPD motorcycle officer James W. Courson (one of two mid-motorcade motorcycles)--"The limousine came to a stop and Mrs. Kennedy was on the back. I noticed that as I came around the corner at Elm. Then the Secret Service agent [Clint Hill] helped push her back into the car, and the motorcade took off at a high rate of speed." ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 129];

5) DPD motorcycle officer Bobby Joe Dale (one of two rear mid-motorcade motorcycles)---"After the shots were fired, the whole motorcade came to a stop. I stood and looked through the plaza, noticed there was commotion, and saw people running around his [JFK's] car. It started to move, then it slowed again; that's when I saw Mrs. Kennedy coming back on the trunk and another guy [Clint Hill] pushing her back into the car." ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 134];

6) Clemon Earl Johnson---"You could see it [the limo] speed up and then stop, then speed up, and you could see it stop while they [sic; Clint Hill] threw Mrs. Kennedy back up in the car. Then they just left out of there like a bat of the eye and were just gone." ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 80];