how do you guys handle them?

It is our usual practice to provide free service calls to honor a manufacturer's warranty. Thankfully, we do not get that many failed units! However, we have one client with a Niles ICS system in the house, which has been problematic since the date of install, nearly 2 years ago.

The GXR-II head unit in this client's install has failed 3 times, and we are about to install the 4th one tomorrow. We are not beating up the units, they are ventilated, and not driving any peculiar loads.....just had a bad run of luck with the units that were shipped to us.

So, when a unit fails within it's warranty period, do you guys charge for service calls to remove the unit from the system? Do you handle the shipping to the service center? Do you charge to re-install the repaired or replaced unit?

As I said, it's not usually an issue for us, but when units come with 2 years or longer warranty, and you continually have to return for manufacturer's warranty issues, it gets old pretty quick! For sure, Niles is not going to cover our service call, nor would any other manufacturer that I know of.

So, what do you guys do in these situations?

Mike

There's a city not far from LA where the lone independent hi-fi store was charging a $50 removal fee to take out a piece for warranty or non-warranty work. That was more than ten years ago.

I don't charge if it's within a year. I was about to say "unless there's abuse," but I've never seen any abuse of product. After the year, there's a minimum labor charge.

I'd lean on Niles for some kind of discount to you on future product to help cover your costs due to their bad run of product. If they have a bad run of product, they have to cover it, but if you have a bad run of their product, you can stop buying from them. Make that clear to them.

Warranties are not there so that a device can fail every six months and be repaired for free. Warranties are there because most modern electronics is supposed to work for a long long time, but because of variations in components, not all defective components are caught prior to assembly or even in the first few months.

I agree, about the one year rule, or even 2 years if the warranty is still in effect. It is good will to the client, and besides, if I remove and re-install it, the rest of the system stays intact, and the wires don't get shoved back down some hole, never to be seen again! LOL.


I'll see what I can get out of Niles, but I'm not holding my breath!

Mike

The old Niles would have taken care of you, buy since they are part of the Linear group now, who knows?

I have been thru this before.. wait.. my boss has been thru this before.. i just got to watch it happen up close and personal when we were PHAST dealers.

You feel guilty that you sold that junk to the client so you dont want to bill for service. Your losing money dealing with this junk and your not happy and the client isnt happy.

If you havent already.. its time to start billing for the service calls. Its not your fault that Niles sells junk. Niles surely didnt tell you they would be selling you junk did they? You cant stand behind someone elses mistake.

As you move forward.. hopefully the problems are GONE.. if not.. talk with the client.. maybe offer them an upgrade @ cost on hardware + discounted labor. If they are not interested at least you tried.

Just dragging up an old thread. I've been thinking on the issue of warranties and am tired of losing money due to poor manufacturing.

I had an HVAC unit installed, if it goes bad under its warranty period, Carrier will pay a fixed amount to the technician that fixes it. Someone needs to be certified to purchase, install and service an HVAC system, any assh--e can buy a BD player and install it.

In thinking, why should my installation warranty cover the performance of the electronics. Shouldn't it just cover connections coming loose, cameras that droop, programming that is lacking, TV falling off the wall (which has never happened), you know, the actual installation.

Should the malfunction of equipment be covered under waranty? or is this where a service contract comes into play? If so, then how do you charge for the service contract.

I'm sorry if these are questions that I should know the answers to, but I've been fumbling through this for eight years and still need to learn the back end of this business.


Thanks

nothing burns me up more then this. We just had our compressor unit burn up (trane) and it was replaced under warranty. I was curious and asked the tech and trane pays for the service call.

This is after dealing with a Marantz AVR (first one needing to go in for repair) and i have 3 hours into this ordeal and it i still haven't received it, I have another 2 hours (hour to go pick it up;hour to go replace) so i have 5 hours out because marantz put a defective HDMI board in.

Why are we the ones that have to foot the bill for this shit. The quality and reliability of these components would do a 180 real quick if these manufactures were held accountable for their defective crap.

Next year im changing my warranty policy to literally just cover the installation. Defective components are not going to be made my responsibility. However I will offer component replacement under the service agreement if they choose to purchase it.

Very frustrating, we are nothing more then free alpha testers to these companies

 I completely 1000% agree with both of you.  I seriously doubt there has been a person in America who has eaten more money than I have due to poorly manufactured equipment.  I would love to do exactly what you guys are planning.  

The problem that I think we'll run into is the fact that doing this good do harm to our businesses.  If X manufacturer makes a crap unit, they keep rolling on.  If we piss off the customers in our target market, we may not be able to recover from it.  
I know I'm dreaming, but I seriously think the manufacturers should have to reimburse us for time and travel.  

Just imagine the rant a client will go on after you charge or attempt to charge them for a manufacturer defect service call, and then place it online on Angies List or ServiceMagic.  That opens up a whole new can of worms. 

I know some on here will say...use better equipment.  These are reputable brands that we've all heard of, and can be very pricey.  Especially pricey when you have to start eating the costs. 

It's interesting reading through this thread and seeing the "attitude" change.

We're all tired of eating it for the vendor.

But I think the only option we have to protect ourselves and our clients is to be adamant about selling service contracts. It's less of a maybe now and more of a when. Have them sign off on a decline for the service contract.

Our magic touch of expertise will provide you with a superior performing system, but its still the same TV that no one made any money on.

Although I am in a different field (Auto repair) I run into this same crap and I also hate it. Some thoughts that I have are...

1. Always use the best products, and make sure that you are making money on both the product & the labor, I was taught that the some of the product markup will help to offset warranty issues.

2. If the customer insists on a cheaper price & the only way you can do that is to substitute a lesser quality product, either walk away from the job or explain to the customer exactly this and that there will be no warranty outside of defects in your labor. I have found that many times after the customer understands this they will see the light and magically find the money for the better product.

Being that we are a custom shop we deal with a ton of different products from all over the country, it seems like it gets worse every year. In my field almost all of our vendors will only cover the part, often not the shipping and almost always not the labor. You guys are not alone...

I just went through this with 2 sets of custom made coil springs. I called the vendor, they agreed that the springs were defective and in warranty. I had to purchase replacements, pay for shipping, ship the old back at my cost, install the springs at my cost and your gonna love this, I get a credit back minus a "20% restocking fee" I almost fell off of my chair, after 10 phone calls they agree that this is wrong but have yet to return my money. I wish I could find another vendor to replace this place!!!

 In the marine electronics market, we have this:  

[Link: nmea.org]

I believe that all the major brands participate.

The main problem is the lack of profit margin made in the sale to cover the cost of service and support for these parts during the warranty period.

Customers go on-line with our proposals and find product at much lower prices. If everyone sold product at the MSRP there would be more profit for the warranty service calls. If a customer buys on-line then then the CI can charge for all labor for warranty service calls. Let the customer be the one who is mad at the manufacturer when the product breaks down.

There are a few CIs who have stopped selling HD panels because of the low margins. They state that they make more profit on charging the customer for after sell service, that we all give away, than the initial profit of selling the HD panel.

In defense of the manufacturers they should not be charged for the extreme travel time or extra labor for elaborate installs such as in a rack. Some CIs will travels 2, 3 or more hours one way to a job. That is their choice. Whenever I take on a job I always consider the cost of travel to service the job properly. I have passed on many jobs because I won't be able to provide the service to them after the install. I don't think there are too many HVAC companies would take a job that is three hours away.

I would be happy with some kind of flat reimbursement from the manufacturer to cover these manufacturer defects. We surely won't get rich but they could cover some of the operating expenses that we incur with these problems. Something is better than nothing, which is what we are getting now.

YOUR installation warranty has nothing to do with a product warranty. If the product fails because you did something wrong, you would need to admit the error and do it on your time but if the manufacturer's product fails repeatedly, it's time for a discussion nobody wants to have, about your need to recover some of the cost of the service calls.

If you want to do this as a goodwill gesture, make sure the client understands that you don't receive anything from the manufacturer for supporting their products in cases like this. A service contract would need to be brought into the conversation in the beginning, unless it's something you began to implement while the project is already in progress.

For me it's always been "Manufacturer Warranty Applies", and I've not had anyone ever complain when it was explained that I cannot be held liable for equipment failure that comes some time later.





The thing that kills me is when you get a unit that's bad out of the box, and you get stuck dealing with the loss.

1. Can't get paid since the system isn't finished.
2. Have to make multiple costly trips getting another POS to replace the bad one.
3. No one gives a diddly squat.

We don't charge for warranty work. Its a customer service thing, but its sucks, lol. If the customer is a butthead, we make it clear UPFRONT that product warranty does NOT cover our labor costs There is no room for confrontation if its clearly explained UPFRONT. that's the key. In writing. Most people are understanding and for us most customers are not buttheads. If they are, they get NOTHING free.