I guess I will find out in the morning. If not anyone need a sales guy with installation experience in the columbus area? Kidding. I hope. I am backed by a very passionate CEO, who has changed industries before and he realizes it can be difficult, but every customer that we go out of our way for adds three more. Momentum is built one step at a time and if this is a necessary step for the group here, we will do it. I realize that not every product is right for every company as well. We do have the chops to earn your business and even if your philosophy is different, we just want to have the respect that our product and our company is credible. Just another teaser, our CEO actually owns a CI shop in florida, that is how he learned the biz. He takes a hands on approach and learns from the customers. Your input is key to our success and appreciated. I guarantee you he doesn't aim to run himself out of business by doing mass market plays like BBY, we truly beleive we have limited the play and it can help the overall industry.

Overall this had been a good experience, i will keep an eye on remote central as i have done for the past few years, please ping me with announcements, questions, concerns, and advice.

do i count as one of the cynical ones? i hope i wasn't being a "cynic" in the literal sense...

yn·ic (snk)
n.
1. A person who believes all people are motivated by selfishness.
2. A person whose outlook is scornfully and often habitually negative.
3. Cynic A member of a sect of ancient Greek philosophers who believed virtue to be the only good and self-control to be the only means of achieving virtue.
adj.
1. Cynical.
2. Cynic Of or relating to the Cynics or their beliefs.
[Latin cynicus, Cynic philosopher, from Greek kunikos, from kun, kun-, dog; see kwon- in Indo-European roots.]
Word History: A cynic may be pardoned for thinking that this is a dog's life. The Greek word kunikos, from which cynic comes, was originally an adjective meaning "doglike," from kun, "dog." The word was probably applied to the Cynic philosophers because of the nickname kun given to Diogenes of Sinope, the prototypical Cynic. He is reported to have been seen barking in public, urinating on the leg of a table, and masturbating on the street. The first use of the word recorded in English, in a work published from 1547 to 1564, is in the plural for members of this philosophical sect. In 1596 we find the first instance of cynic meaning "faultfinder," a sense that was to develop into our modern sense. The meaning "faultfinder" came naturally from the behavior of countless Cynics who in their pursuit of virtue pointed out the flaws in others. Such faultfinding could lead quite naturally to the belief associated with cynics of today that selfishness determines human behavior.

i would hope that my opinion was unbiased, but truly independent review is somewhat hard, if not impossible to get these days.

i would not be able to take you up on your offer mainly because i do not have any purchase authority with the biz organizations i work with.

secondly, i don't really feel like flying from hawaii to ohio is really that appealing, espcially with the current weather.

i also think that my main critique of you system is issues with the UI and architecture, even when things are ideally set up and operating correctly. i also have to put things into perspective as to how this system will be relevant in the years to come.

the last has to deal with the manner in which this product will organically develop in the coming months - with respect to people specifying product vs people installing it, and how the end user is placed with little regard this version / tact of your / EI's marketing strategy.

of course i don't dispute anyone right to do whatever they please. some people say that we don't "get it". i think we get it, i'm just exercising my right to interject independent comment. it does of course affect us/me in some ways. having to work with clients who may have been subject to a first round of marketing from their builder, EI, or BB... will require some management component... other's calling it "smoke and mirrors", although a bit sensational, cannot be refuted, but time will prove one way or the other who's comment has more substance.

Barry, I know you're lurking and in need of another jacket.

I actually wasn't speaking about Steve.

Setting up and programming a TPMC17ch with twin HD video windows, MS applications, and home automation controls this week. I'll be sure to tell my client how he's getting ripped off since it doesn't do digital video. LOL!

OK...I will try to answer this without too much confusion.

Accessing the home automation system can be done in a several different ways. You can do so by navigating to Lifeware through a Media Center and it's associated display (TV), as you described above. You can access it through a client pc running XP, such as you might have in your home office. You can access it through a touchpanel pc, such as our Life|point or a Pelham-Sloane TP, for example, or you can access it through a tablet pc or UMPC running XP/XP-embedded such as the Samsung Q1. -OR- You can use a combination of any or all of these methods. Think of the system in terms of a basic 'star' topology, with a single server and multiple client machines. Lifeware is software that is built onto the Windows XP platform. As I mentioned before, we encourage folks to use it in conjunction with MCE to fully utilize the capabilities of both MCE and Lifeware for a truly seamless experience, but MCE is not a requirement. On a side note, you can also trigger scripts, such as a 'I'm Home' lighting scene, through other devices such as a lighting system dimmer or audio system keypad, for example.

joshod,

just curious, if you don't use MCE, what GUI do you see & where does this GUI come from?

The GUI that you see is built into the Lifeware software.

And how customizable is that? Regardless of whether you have a potential stable configuration a few notches up the price chain, I don't see how the non-configurable GUI is going to float other than in the the low end.

LOL... OK, you got me. I am lurking, but I don't need another jacket *that* bad.

They may start out free, but they can end up being very expensive.

I may be slow but I hope I'm not stupid. (?)

Steve, I would ask, what products would you guys be using to accomplish this type of integration? What DA system, what lighting, what plasmas? etc etc. My guess would be Russound, Radio Ra and whatever plasmas would be available. It isn't that hard to come up with something cheaper. That really isn't the question. The question is will it work and what are the capabilities. I would say that if my above assumptions are corect, then yes, you could probably devise a system that is cheaper because the subsystems are cheaper. I would also say that Ra is a lousy candidate for this hypothetical. 50 loads with a chronos is really pushing the limits of RA. I know its possible, but how many here would do it? Lets change it to 65 lighting loads. Then what happens? I would also say that Russound is a bad solution for this hypothetical. Is six sources really enough for a 12 zone DAsystem? Again, how many here would want to use a Russound system that is available to every DIY on the net for cost?

The real comparison is the control system. That is what it seems like you are trying to sell us. (It doesn't seem like you are really trying to sell a control system to anyone else, JMO) What is the MSRP for your system for a dedicated controller, one or more of your touchpanels to run it and your hypothetical 50 lighting loads, 12 DA zones and the other items. That is your challenge. Given the exact same source components and subsystems, what is the MSRP of your system. Leaving out installation since the same wires will be needed regardless. This is what I am curious about.

I could care less what they do. Don't clump me in there. I do what I do and you do what you need to do and I'm happy with thaT!

The price chain I think you are referring to only applies to our builder packages. If you want a custom setup, as a dealer you can spec out a job with whatever pieces and parts you want/need. As for the GUI, from my experience with custom install, I would have to agree with Julie J. in that custom GUI's are really more the programmer's focus than the homeowner's. Most folks just want something that looks clean and works well.

I've been in this industry since the late 70's, and have seen a fairly constant parade of people who have succeeded in other industries who barrel in here looking to change the paradigm. I don't deny it's possible, but I really can't name anyone who's actually done it. Can anyone? Every major industry breakthrough outside of format changes (CD, DVD, etc.) has been an organic change, growing from within the industry. Are there exceptions I'm overlooking?

Let's make it quick, and say that we are flexible. If you want to go big boy lighting lets do vantage infusion with 65 loads, 12 zones of audio with 2 russound CA 6.6 (we have some secret sauce here that will make you think differently when installed. We can always use a different audio system, pricing is pretty standard whether its nuvo, niles, russound, and then you jump to ada, nestreams and stuff. You go adagio, i will go russound, remember we are talking about function, working and ease of setup as well. Russound does have 50+% of the DA space. I was going to go aprilaire thermostats and either dsc or honeywell security. Lets not get into the minutia, build your spec and we do something that has basically the same functionality. Let's go offline and do a conference call for folks who want to participate.

joshod,
I'm curious to know why you edited your post?

another poster had asked the following question:
"And how customizable is that? Regardless of whether you have a potential stable configuration a few notches up the price chain, I don't see how the non-configurable GUI is going to float other than in the the low end."

To which you answered:
(and I'm paraphrasing now, since I did not copy your response it b4 you edited the post)

....something about CI's need to attend your Level II training because you did not want to share or give out your secrets!

and you wonder why people call you guys "snake oil salesmen"!!