Can't say I'm ready

I actually fielded these concerns on a different thread entitled 'Lifeware Questions' awhile back. If you read through the second page of that thread, I have addressed the level 1 training and demo version software concerns you raised here. This should cover your questions, but if not, let me know and I will do my best to answer any remaining ones.

netarc, as you posted this in regards to q's statement that, "it's all smoke and mirrors", I thought that I would defend his position. Both Steve and Joshod have been extremely "fluid" in their arguments and it does at least appear to be smoke and mirrors. The way I was raised is that perception is reality. EI markets through distribution, at least here in the Denver area, with HP. The defensive pitch that I got from them was ALL ABOUT utilizing Life|Ware via HP. That is an MCE, not Embedded app. The fact that after much abuse (of which I must admit I've been a part of.)they jump in with, "Wait. Wait. We're stable because we run on XP Embedded." Then it's pointed out that they CAN run on XP Embedded. There is just some disturbing and defensive "promotion" going on. As this is a forum (as opposed to a blog), many of our responses are exactly what should be expected here.

the highest resolution Crestron touchpanel is the TPMC-17 at 1280x768. this is probably similiar to the resolution that your panels have. i don't know of any touchscreens that are true HD in that they support 1920x1080 or x1200. Crestron does offer some pretty good custom solutions in that you can make any display, whether a CRT, LCD, plasma, into a touchscreen with a video processor and a touch overlay. or, with the XPANEL solution, any PC or Intel Mac into a touchscreen with an overlay (or it is a tablet / UMPC). your panels use ethernet to stream media... a fine way of doing it, Crestron happens to use an analog transmission, also fine. your method is more scaleable and probably the way of the future, but there is something to be said about analog transmission too... no encoding, decoding, or other bandwidth limitations on the physical network. personally, i'd take the IP stream over analog any day, but there is definitely nothing "broke" about the way that Crestron does it, either.

Will Lifeware be open, so that those who wish to utilize non-Lifeware products and maintain the ability to change the system in the future as technology adapts? I'll gladly pick up an IR remote control and do my programming from the 6 buttons if I though that more advanced coding methods were not necessary, but right now there is no parity in the capabilities of these two approaches.

just because something CAN run XP embedded makes no statement of fact as to its reliability. XP Embedded is not a different OS, it is a subset or a componetized version of XP. it could be implemented as a full image of a normal distribution of XP if one wanted to. the XP kernel is still the same complex riddled with legacy code from WIN NT (which held legacy code from earlier products). XP embedded can crash too, but it won't crash because of certiain reasons, if it is engineered with care.

As well as other dealers. The TPMC-17-Ch is capable of dual windows and is native 1280x768. Supports streaming A/V and has XP embedded built-in with MS Office software.

My Vantage 12" TP with the stock video driver is 1024x768 max.

Man you guys just don't get it. Companies like Exceptional innovations and C4 will sell to mass retailers cause they want to.

Venting about that here will not change their strategy. It's done.

You just need to decide what you want to do.

If you want to compete with that, go ahead.

If not, then buy Crestron, AMX or Netstreams (all 3 of which have interesting systems that may enable you to differentiate and offer something better).

Yes, but that's just a controller running XP embedded, correct? Wouldn't a PC running media center still be required?

Just look at AMX and Crestron's websites.

No. XP media center is not a requirement for control of the home automation systems. MCE certainly enhances the user experience and gives you more features that would not be available without it, but it is not a requirement. We encourage people to use it with MCE because it offers total control along with the enhanced benefits of a media center pc and its network. I think where the idea of 'fluid statements' is coming into play is that each post that we read asks a different question, keeping in mind that it might be the same question framed in a different way. When you are comparing Lifeware to another system's functionality, for example, we are answering with that same functionality in mind. When you ask questions about stability, we answer you in terms of how to get stability from the system. The truth is, there is a mulititude of ways in which you can utilize the Lifeware solution, no one necessarily more "correct" than the other. How you choose to set it up really depends on what you want to achieve, and what the customer's expectations are. Please understand that our answers are not intended to be ambiguous or misleading, rather, we are simply trying to answer the same questions from many different angles.

Man this thread really took off!

Nothing like a Rep to get the ball rolling:)

Just a couple of quick points...

If I were to pay that kind of money for something it would be Crestron or AMX. Why pay Ferrari money for a "Lexus"?

Not sure I understand the HP situation. Who has to deal with HP tech support, the CI or the end user? Is this piece client supplied and CI supported for free? Where do I sign up!

I am sure this product once stabilized on the backs of the CI community, will be in BB CC et all.

M$ is pushing into the living room and beyond, adjust your biz model or loose.

I am sure most of these questions are answered at the EI sight, I guess I will further investigate this HP angle. Only because it interests me to understand why in heck I would want to deal with a product with no margins and a unlimited amount of headaches.

One last thing, the amount of marketing dollars spent is troubling. In this industry it seems the more you are spending on Ads the less dependable the product is...

C4
Bose
Harmony
etc
etc

Aren't you using the media center interface on the TV for Lifeware control (i.e. customizing MCE)? Without MCE how would a person call up a menu on their TV?

I think that their argument is that EI is much easier to setup and program. Actually, their argument at one point, almost sounded like they believe EI to be a superior product.


After talking to the last HP support person in Bhopal, I will never buy another HP product.


Once stabilized? Where have you been? They're already in Best Buy.


We may have to adjust to Microsoft's current and future endeavors, but I have no interest in supporting or promoting them.

I love all the ups and downs, how many people really want to get to know the truth and see if this works and works well. I will put out a challenge to say the synical five that want to kill me for being a start up, HP partner, and a microsoft platform product. Ok maybe their is more than five of you. Any how, lets go offline and spec an average automation system, say 12 zones of audio, 2 thermostats, a security system, a basic media room, and say 50 loads of lighting, four plasmas, and say two cameras. All the active folks on here sort out who the five are and agree on amx or crestron and spec the system at full msrp and programming. I will fly you out to our headquarters and we will spec and setup the exact system using our gear and MCE in a basic home and if at the end it doesn't work and work impressively well, I will pay you your normal day labor rate and let you go home a winner. But if it does work and and we bring in average people off the street who can use it. You guys place an opening order with us. I know this is bizarre, and i am definetly spending way more money than we normally spend to get a customer, but there is no smoke and mirrors here. We will put our money where our mouth is. If coming to columbus ohio in winter is not appealling, we will set this up as a dealer challenge at CEDIA. You guys tell me if your game, but i can type all year long and it doesn't get any better than what i have offered. I live with this stuff, and it is real and if the only way to convince you is to have you do it and get paid for it, lets do it.

It looks like they had a little paw-wow at EI today, I am impressed!

Now I know why some manufacturers don't allow employees to post on public forums err blogs or fora or whatever it is this place is called today.

Except in this case the employee is the one that would be making that type of rule, the VP of sales. So I'm sure he has nothing to worry about :-).