It had everything to do with the conversation and your previous post . You'd prefer that this be more like a blog in that you and Steve expound (sell) the virtues of your system without question from the forum members .

Even without visiting your website, it's obvious even to me that putting control on the same computer with MCE, media,web surfing, other programs etc. is bad mojo . If I'm not mistaken, it wasn't until Alan brought this up that Steve said control should reside on a secure XP computer .

Now I agree that these guys can get pretty tough, but they (and you) are in a tough business . And I don't think that you are snake oil salesman; I think you really believe in your product . But if you can't take you whacks on a forum such as this , how do you expect to survive in the marketplace?

Ok...let's go back. Whether I am posting to a blog or forum really has no bearing on the conversation leading up to that point. I apologize for using the wrong term, but that was such a small part of my post, that to point it out was probably not necessary. Again, my apologies. My point was that the CI industry should take a fair look at the system and evaluate it with an open mind. Steve and I are not here to sell our product without question. We are here to disspell any rumors or misconceptions about the product, and have openly challenged the community to voice their questions and concerns directly to us instead of spreading what might be incorrect/incomplete information to the CI community. I encourage all of you to ask questions and make your concerns heard. I have no problem with 'Taking my Whacks' as you adequately put it, but let's do it in a professional manner, and be respectful. There is no need to ever let a discussion become personal.

I don't mind taking the whacks, personally i think that good things come out of product controversy. Back to the original point of this forum, here is a link to the press release in CRN today, [Link: customretailer.net] please copy and paste. FYI the COO of custom builder USA was with Lutron for a lot of years. Also they only service custom homebuilders that represent roughly 3000 homes a year that start over $500,000 and go to the millions. Large opportunity if you are a dealer in the southeast. Also their folks chose our product and approach over the competition. Was a large focus group and 90% of them have done projects with amx and crestron.

Steve@EI, I am glad I started this thread. It has answered a lot of questions I have had about your product.

One more question.

TMG announced an MDU solution with your Lifeware product. Will this MDU product be pushed on to other dealers like Vertilinc or is it solely for use of TMG?

Thanks for your involvement in the thread.

Also what are you guys doing with Origen AE enclosures? Word has it EI has been messing with them. Any new hardware at EHX.

See you at EHX

I've made very little attempt to discuss this with you because your debating technique is one of constant spin. You make a point, someone responds, you then make another totally unrelated point as if you never said what you said in the first place, or claimed that you meant something different in the first place. Or you make a point about how much more powerful your system is compared to Crestron or AMX et al, then when some very simple things are pointed out that your system cannot do, you dismiss them. The end result is that you give LESS credence to Lifeware rather than more, as you would if you attempted to present a balanced viewpoint.

As far as your comments above, Josh made the statements that no other manufacturer sells an HD touchpanel. That is simply FALSE (though I suspect unintentional on his part). You respond with a totally unrelated claim that had NOTHING to do with what Josh stated. And as usual your claim is questionable though there are a few facts mixed in with the nonsense.

This has been brought up many times before, in various threasd on various fora, and never has anyone disputed that LW runs on MCE itself. So it's kind of odd to find out now that it actually has a back end component. I wonder if this is the way it's always installed, or something just can be done but isn't actually being done?

Though, it still leaves the media server (a very important part) on MCE.

LW runs on Windows XP embedded for the EI controller. It says it on the website, but you can run it on MCE. I would not do so with a multi purpose windows machine though.

First of all - appreciate your comments here at R/C, Steve; it's always good to see a mfg rep actively participating in the CI forums, so long as they're not blindly shilling their product (well, Josh has kinda come perilously close on a couple of occassions, imho - but he's new ;)

I don't think shilling is what you're doing, mind .... you've raised some interesting points that have me (and I suspect some others) thinking. Can't say I'm ready to be an EI dealer (I've been to a local level I training/dog'n'pony show - fairly impressive, but I wasn't sold on it ... main reasons being overall price, rep unable to answer or glossed over some serious technical questions, and no real way for a prospective dealer to obtain/demo the software w/o a significant buy-in); but we'll be keeping an eye on you folks, certes.


Just to clarify - this is the RTM (release) version of Vista MCE I was referring to (my bad, as I should have said I was running it since Dec, not Nov, in my original post).

BTW, one of the things I find odd is that since Lifeware offers a number of hardware components in addition to their software, and since they obviously got some major bucks to blow, why don't they offer some type of really stable PC to their dealers under the LW name? I find this idea that they spend so much time teaching dealers how a PC can be stable if they just delete everything unneeded and lock it down etc. to be pretty funny. As a dealer the last thing I want to do is have to buy a HP Media Center and then waste two hours of my life deleting all the insane crap that comes preloaded on machines today that constantly pops up in your face.

I'd think they would want to offer their dealers a turn key solution - while still allowing those dealers who want to build or buy their own machines to do so.

To clarify, Lifeware can run on Windows XP, XP MCE, and XP embedded (soon, also Vista). I think what Steve was saying is that if stability and security are your concern, then it can be set up on a server that is locked away and protected. Lifeware does not have to have internet access to operate. The only time that web access is absolutely necessary is during the activation and registration process. During those times, the system sends and receives information to activate your server's license key with us, and registers the product for support. However, some folks like the ability to pull information in from the web, such as album art for the music library, weather forecasts, etc. And some want the ability to surf as well. So, If I understand the question correctly, I think the answer is that Lifeware can be set up either way, or in combination, depending on your customer's preferences. In other words, you can lock it down as tight as you want to.

If you read the release from the magazine that Steve linked to, you will see that the EI dedicated controller is not a part of the system until the third or fourth upgrade level. So the first couple levels of Lifeware are being marketed to the builders just as Alan fears, running on the same box as web browsers, media players etc. ALso, these packages include plasmas, distributed audio systems and other hardware. Who determines the end price to the homebuyer? The builder? the lucky CI? EI? Lots of questions to answer before this announcement is to be taken seriously.

Also, regarding the builder deal. Steve says that this will be great for CI's just like the BB deal etc. We are only providing the marketing to builders, the EI dealers will still get all the business. However, it also says that EI will sell the parts to basically anyone the builder designates (not in so many words, but the effect is the same). So what is to stop the builders from designating there own guys, buying and installing the product? It seems like nothing is stopping this.

Here is a quote from the release:

"CBUSA members will be able to sell “good, better, best” home control packages to homebuyers, with installation performed by local Lifeware-certified dealers. If a builder would prefer to use an installer that is not Lifeware-certified, EI will certify that installer."

What is MSRP on the dedicated Lifeware controller? The "HD" touchpanel? Other hardware? And software for that matter?

It's all smoke and mirrors.

My big concern with the BB and/or builders program model - if/when the (competent) CI firm is brought in (whether it's to perform the initial install, or worse, to fix a poor install), the homeowner has already been through one, if not two, levels of salespeople who more than likely oversold said homeowner on the solution, at a given pricepoint.

This leaves the CI in a particularly bad position, imo ... not an indictment of the product, but the marketing method.


I know this is a volatile & emotion-filled thread, but can I humbly request (to both CIs and EI reps, alike) that we try to keep things more constructive?

why don't they offer some type of really

Actually, we do offer the Life|controller, which is a Windows XP embedded machine that can control your entire system. It comes in both a rack-mountable version and a version which can be mounted into a structured wiring cabinet. You can find this product on our website at www.life-ware.com, under the products section.

As for the Touchpanel topic from earlier. Could someone provide specs/model #'s on the touchpanels from Crestron and (Elan was it?) which are true HD TP's? I have no problem with being wrong if there is something out there that is comparable with the Life|point, but to my knowledge, it is unique in its capabilities.

Not Elan. The Via touchpanel is pretty low resolution. I'm sure Alan or QQQ can tell you which of the many Crestron TPs have HD resolution.

I know of at least one other, and you are probably pretty familiar with it :), the Vantage Touchpoint 1210.