I think the clarification is in that Crestron, for example, would also let you use the Samsung UMPC, Sony VGN-UX, or OQO 002 type devices... it so happens that Crestron also does sell lots of proprietary touchpanels, but the environment certainly does not limit you to using only those.

Crestron sells lighting hardware, but is quite happy to control other vendors' hardware. A crestron system could be $2k in hardware, or it could be $200k in hardware.... but both extremes take advantage of the rich programming environment. Usually choosing Crestron hardware gives you tighter integration than otherwise possible, due to the in-house development done to ensure integration.

Ahh...I see. But you do still have to use their own TP's and their own processors for control. If you use the Q1, for example, you are still using their X-Panel for control, which requires their E-processors.

joshod, in addition to my question above, I did not see your request for me to get a list of dealers in my area. Is their a show-room/place I could view the Life|ware in action in the NYC area? Please let me know. Thank you.

that's right... you must have an "e" processor... which could be under $2k... closer to $1k if you only need very limited number of RS-232 or IR ports... most all of your equipment is controllable via IP, but a more realistic system usually requires at a minimum of $2k to $4k in Crestron hardware to run well. once you throw Adagio into the mix, it is apparent that Crestron = expensive is no longer true.

to clarify, you could have a system that is an MC2E, as many UMPCs as you wish (no licensing fee as it is running XPANEL and of course limited by network speed) and BSS soundweb gear controlled via IP... and that is your entire control hardware, DA, and UI elements... you don't have to have a single Crestron touchpanel in the system if you don't want it. in fact, you don't have to have any dedicated touchscreens... it could just be running on the Crestron's webserver and using standard computer IE browser to control everything - not typical in a residential environment, but potentially viable in a commercial one.

typically, most Crestron systems include lots more Crestron hardware to keep it all under Crestron control, rather than depending on 3rd party hardware, but this is of course optional.

You're not sure? Then you don't know much about the systems you mentioned then, do you? Neither is limited to their own TP's, lighting, HVAC, etc. You've exposed either your lack of knowledge about competitors products or you're intentionally decieving people. So which is it? Are you ignorant or dishonest?

For audio, with that many audio sources and rooms, I would probably go with a Distributed Audio (DA) system such as the Russound CAV6.6 or CAM6.6. Lifeware works very well with Russound and you can daisy chain up to 6 of them together (6 zones/6 sources each) to give you up to 36 sources and zones of audio. Also, as a bonus, Lifeware adds the ability to browse music and stream metadata to/from the Russound keypads. As for video, once cablecard becomes the norm, you will need a cablecard for each tv in order to view separate video feeds in each room unless you use an extender. Niveus has a cable receiver (the DCR) coming out that will handle two cable cards, which would give you the ability to watch separate feeds on two different tv's, but to my knowledge that is the most you can get as of now.

The best thing for you to do is locate a dealer in your area, which can be found by looking on our website at www.life-ware.com. They can give you a demonstration, or you can contact the regional sales manager in your area. His name is Matt Bolton and you can reach him at 614-216-6422. He can also put you in touch with a dealer and let you know when/where the next regional training session for your area will be.

Neither actually. I have done my best to answer all of the questions posted here as honest and straight forwardly as possible and in doing so have taken large amounts of criticism from almost every member of this forum. I don't appreciate Anthony Z's continued personal attacks. I have asked once to keep the conversation above the belt, to which you agreed. If your opinions are different from mine, that's fine. If you are not interested in Life|ware as a solution for your business, that is also fine. But to personally attack another member of the CE community on a public forum is to completely derail the purpose of the forum. And to make such personal attacks, it's just plain unprofessional. As I said in a previous post, I will continue to represent Life|ware to the best of my knowledge and abilities. Should any other personal attacks be posted in this forum, they will not be justified with a response; they will simply be disregarded.

C'mon, you (and your colleauges) are (and have been) dodging real issues throughout this entire thread. You're doing the same here. You have gone beyond representing EI and strayed well into misrepresenting other manufacturers. If you are going to spread misinformation (and you are), you can expect some grief. Period. If you can't handle someone calling you out on your bullshit, then you're too weak to be in sales anyways.

I don't work in sales. As my signature says, I am in support. As I stated before, I will continue to represent to the best of my knowledge. I am not aware of any touchpanel that works with Crestron other than their own without the use of X-panel which also requires their processor. No misrepresentation there. If you know of one, please pass that information along instead of attacking me personally. As for dodging issues, we have all done our best to answer each question in relation to the question that was asked. No smoke, no mirrors. We have offered to send copies of the software to anyone who wanted to make an informed judgement and stop the second- and third-hand information that many of you are commenting on. We have also offered to fly any of you out to our facility to compare our system to yours, and pay your days' wages as well, if we could not stand up to our claims. That seems pretty straight-forward to me, and far from dodging anything. Furthermore, there is a difference between 'some grief' and a personal attack. I've been taking 'some grief' since I started on this forum. That's all fine, as I expected to get some, being the new kid on the block. But I did not expect, nor do I deserve the disrespect that you are dishing out. Do I know everything there is to know about every piece of hardware out there? Heck no, but I guarantee that there is no one here who does, and that's why we are here in the first place. Let's not lose sight of what it means to be a professional just because we have a difference of opinion. If you don't like our products, feel free to use another solution, but don't cloud the water for those who do want to find out what our products are about and form their own opinions.

Josh,

I am going to cut right to the chase.

A few pages back, I posted a system design/programming spec and am still waiting for the following answers:

1) Can EI do the system as specced?* If you would like, I will re-post the spec and add in all the connected equipment(TV's, DVD players, etc) as well if this helps. For now, assume that all the TV's are Fujitsu, and the AV gear is all Denon.

2a) What parts does EI advise/require to build the system as specced(touch-panels, keypads, remotes, controllers etc)?

2b) If EI does not build or supply a specific part like a remote or keypad, what product does EI advise to use that will work with the EI system to make the system work as specced?

3) What is the total MSRP of all the EI hardware to build the system?

4) What is the total software fee(once again MSRP) for the system if done by EI?

* I understand that EI will be using an MCE interface, and therfore the cosmetics will be different, but the "one-button operation" is the important part. I feel the spec is fairly open about how the cosmetics of the interface can be arranged, but that it clearly states that things like power/changing sources must be a one-button operation.


Josh, I think you are doing a good thing by trying to inform dealers about your product, but if you read back, you will see that Steve also made some incorrect claims about your competitors. I think people here are starting to see a pattern and are trying to stop it before it gets too far out of hand.
This is a group that is a bit harder to please than some of the other AV Sites. The trade-off is that if you prove to them that you have a solid product(and can back-up your companies claims), they will defend you with the same conviction you are seeing now.

Jason

AnthonyZ,
I am a reader of the RC forums but a first-time poster. I would simply like to point out that joshod is a member of the Life|support Call Center team of technicians; he is not a Sales representative. In addition to taking technical support calls from integrators who are installing Life|ware systems today, another responsibility of our Life|support team is to respond to forum posts on this and other industry websites. On a personal level, I feel for joshod. I have never received this level of harassment in my personal career and I sincerely hope that by posting, I am not opening myself up to the same blind hatred our technicians have been subjected to.

I would also like to point out a previous post in this thread by our VP of Sales, Steve Cashman: "I personally challenge you to come out to either our headquarters or one of the trade shows and meet with me or a member of our team”

I work at our headquarters in Columbus, OH and I would be happy to give you a guided tour of our facility and an in-depth, hands-on look at Life|ware- what it does and doesn’t do. I will be sending you an email to coordinate a time for you to come out.

If you are too busy, I can also offer you more hands-on experience with Life|ware by sending you a complimentary demo system. All that we require is a signed non-disclosure agreement (not a dealer contract). Please let me know if you are interested.
Thank you,
Emma

Emma,

Welcome.
I think you have mis-read the guys here. No one is mad at Josh as a person. I have the feeling most of us would gladly have a beer with him and talk shop. As I stated above, this is a rough crowd. BS sinks fast here and big claims require big proof. Josh made some claims about Crestron (Steve made some about both that were more inaccurate than Josh's), and they were vague enough to mean both what he said and what he meant. The problem is, the guys on this site have the technical knowledge to read it a different way.

We have offered to provide the proof, but got very little response from the folks who seemed to be talking the loudest. It's easy to misunderstand what is written when there is no face or tone to go along with what is said. Many times part of it is taken out of context and framed in a different light than how it was originally intended. It is equally as easy to post bold statements toward a person's character when we can hide behind an anonymous name or email address. I would gladly take you up on the offer to have beers and talk shop, but Anthony's posts were not so much a friendly challenge to what I said as they were an outright attack on my character. I take that VERY personally. Business is business and it should be kept on that level here. I've taken my lumps and worked in the install field, same as you guys. I deserve the respect you give to your peers, and with all due respect, I won't accept anything less. I am here to represent a company that you guys have questions about. I encourage you all to ask questions, and always have. There is NEVER an excuse to step beyond that into personal attack. If you know for a fact that something I've said is false, by all means, let me know about it. But do it professionally and explain why. That much, we all deserve and can benefit from. Anyway, back to something constructive...

As for your spec'd system, if it's not too much trouble, please repost it here so that I(and maybe a few others) can take a look at it. I apologize if there were still questions you had that went unanswered. There is no EI hardware that is required to set up a system, so you can spec whatever hardware you like. Also, keep in mind that prices on hardware will vary from one dealer to the next, depending on their relationship with the manufacturers, so that will affect your bottom line price. Just to make the distinction clear, those prices are set by their respective manufacturers and do not have anything to do with the price of Lifeware. We only sell the software that controls your chosen hardware. In all honesty, the best way to get exact pricing on the software is to speak with one of our sales reps. In support, we do not keep a good working knowledge of the prices of everything. All questions we get in regard to price are referred to the in-office sales staff, but we will all be happy to help answer any questions you have.

Listen, Joshod, I'll tone down my style as I can indeed understand where you're coming from. Please keep in mind that my "attacks" were posed in the form of reasonable questions. You were either way off or deceptive. It's tough to see it any other way. Neither is a very good option. In either case you should stick to what EI does and not what other's can't do. Especially when you're making statements that are not true. I hope you can understand my position...As for seriously looking at the product, I think not and I've stated why already...