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Topic:
EI going straight to builders with Lifeware
This thread has 350 replies. Displaying posts 136 through 150.
Post 136 made on Tuesday February 20, 2007 at 09:56
joshod
Long Time Member
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58
Actually, I reread the post from Dean, and discovered I had misread what he was asking. At first read, I thought he was asking for technical information about the GUI which I cannot put out there. Once I reread his post, I saw that he was really asking about the ability to customize the GUI. Didn't mean to confuse anyone, it's just early and I had a late night last night. You guys are definitely keeping me on my toes! Keep 'em coming!
Life|support
Life|ware by Exceptional Innovation
OP | Post 137 made on Tuesday February 20, 2007 at 10:48
RADIO RAHIM
Advanced Member
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August 2005
799
Steve@EI, will EI have an MDU solution for the rest of us. Are you just teaming with TMG for that particular project? Is TMG releasing RITA to other dealers?
Post 138 made on Tuesday February 20, 2007 at 14:07
CoastalHome
Long Time Member
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13
Phew; that took a long time to get through and I even skipped a couple of pages. Nice to see such passion even if some of it is misguided.

First and foremost I am an integrator that bases his entire business on two things; 1. Media Center. 2. Marketing directly to builders. Needless to say Life|ware for me is a huge part of my business.

I'd like to first address the original subject of this thread; EI "going straight" to builders. When I heard this it was all I could do not to hug Steve and Seale from EI the next time I saw them. Do you have any idea how hard it is, and how much time is involved in marketing to builders? They are a stubborn bunch who still refer to what I do as "smart homes". To have a company like EI working for and with me to communicate with and educate builders is HUGE. Being located in the North East I simply don't have the resources or time to dedicate to educating the vast amount of builders in my area, not to mention the clients they serve.

For me it's all about education and awareness. To have a company like EI and to a larger extent Microsoft, putting their marketing dollars into promoting awareness of home automation as a general concept will eventually translate into more jobs for me as more and more builders and homeowners look to add home automation. Just as it was stated earlier in this thread (by Julie, I believe) market penetration for home automation is pathetic.

As for the Best Buy thing; I for one welcome it. Again; more awareness and exposure for home automation. When the recipient of a BBY install wants to "do more" who do you think they'll call? Best Buy? Nope; they're all done. They have nothing more to sell them to further automate their home. They call me. That gets me into a home I might have not otherwise gotten into to sell more automation with more margin and as I walk through the house I get to point out, "Oh by the way; your finished basement would be perfect for a mini home theater." Microsoft Vista Premium present in millions upon millions of homes? I like those numbers and the potential that they have on my business.


There will always be Microsoft haters. I've learned to stop trying to convert them. When establishing my business model I looked at the bigger picture of who is going to have the muscle to help penetrate this market in a way that will create main stream buzz amongst consumers and, for once, a pull market instead of the push market that it is now. As far as I'm concerned Crestron and AMX have had their chance. They've been around for a long time and created some interesting closed system products. In that time they (and a handful of others) have been able to create approx. 5% market share for home automation and practically zero brand awareness among John and Jane Consumer. I think it's time for some fresh perspective. It's easy to stand on a soap box and yell "Microsoft sucks, blah, blah, blah" becasue you have a desktop computer that crashes once a week. I tell you what; I had an Elan system that crashed on a daily basis. My desktop computer at work is a lot more reliable by comparision.

I must applaud Steve for venturing into this forum as he's taken a lot of heat. That exhibits his and everyone else at EI's dedication and passion to this market and specifically to the CEDIA channel. Anyone who questions EI's dedication to this channel simply does not know what they are talking about or haven't invested the time to really research EI and the team behind it.

And in case you were wondering, I sell Niveus Media Centers; the best on the market bar none. I defy you to find a more stable digital media management device that gives you access to ALL of your digital media.
Post 139 made on Tuesday February 20, 2007 at 14:37
rlustig
Advanced Member
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915
So please give us some examples of the projects you have completed with Lifeware. I for one would really like to see a real example from a real dealer. You are the first person to actually use this product I think on this thread. How many installs have you done? What are some of your experiences? PLease let us know.

When Control 4 first started banging away the threads were filled with dealers saying both good and bad about it. I haven't heard a word about Control4 in months. I wonder if that is because all of the dealers have abandoned it, or it is so good that there is no need to talk about it. I doubt the latter, since I would at least expect those dealers who may be succesful with that product at least saying so.

Coastal, thanks for joining, please expand on your first thoughts. BTW, where are you located and can you provide an email address for off forum questions? None of that is in your profile.
OP | Post 140 made on Tuesday February 20, 2007 at 14:38
RADIO RAHIM
Advanced Member
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CoastalHome, you have made a good introduction, but they are still going to eat you alive in hear. I agree with you, but I also feel EI has some ways to go to take the crown. Crestron is a 200+ million dollar company. They just wait to flip the switch on new technology, but it only seems when they feel pressure. I wish you luck and please keep us updated on your findings with EI and Niveus Media.


I'm still waiting for Steve@EI to answer my MDU question.
Post 141 made on Tuesday February 20, 2007 at 14:40
weird_ideas
Long Time Member
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October 2005
192
On February 20, 2007 at 14:07, CoastalHome said...
First and foremost I am an integrator that bases his entire
business on two things; 1. Media Center. 2. Marketing
directly to builders. Needless to say Life|ware for me
is a huge part of my business.

Interesting and bold approach can I ask what your background is? I would have to guess IT


becasue you have a desktop computer
that crashes once a week. I tell you what; I had an Elan
system that crashed on a daily basis. My desktop computer
at work is a lot more reliable by comparision.

So are you saying that if an automation system crashes once a week thats allowable?


I must applaud Steve for venturing into this forum as
he's taken a lot of heat.

I strongly agree, thanks Steve

That exhibits his and everyone
else at EI's dedication and passion to this market and
specifically to the CEDIA channel. Anyone who questions
EI's dedication to this channel simply does not know what
they are talking about or haven't invested the time to
really research EI and the team behind it.

I think time will tell. So Steve why didn't the joint venture with Vantage work out????

And in case you were wondering, I sell Niveus Media Centers;
the best on the market bar none. I defy you to find a
more stable digital media management device that gives
you access to ALL of your digital media.

From my experience with Niveus (at the distributor) it was frozen everytime I went in there to look at it, and no I'm not exaggerating. If thats the best, I'm glad I haven't wasted my time with MCE then.
Post 142 made on Tuesday February 20, 2007 at 14:42
Dean Roddey
Senior Member
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May 2004
1,009
On February 20, 2007 at 08:49, joshod said...
The price chain I think you are referring to only applies
to our builder packages. If you want a custom setup, as
a dealer you can spec out a job with whatever pieces and
parts you want/need. As for the GUI, from my experience
with custom install, I would have to agree with Julie
J. in that custom GUI's are really more the programmer's
focus than the homeowner's. Most folks just want something
that looks clean and works well.

But this is a custom installer forum. They want to differentiate themselves. Most 'folks' aren't going to it themselves, they are going to go to an installer to get it done if it's going to be done at all. Each installer company wants to 'brand' their product just like you do, and GUI customization is a way to do that. It also allows them to support non-cookie cutter requirements of the customer which is kind of important unless they are looking to be the Burger King of installers.

And I just can't see where you guys get this idea that it's not important. We've put huge amounts of time into the customization aspects of our interface design system, and it's still not remotely enough and we are being beaten on all the time to provide more.

Here are some examples of the breadth of look and feel that customers have created:










Every customer has an idea of what is really cool and wants to create penis envy in their neighbors and differentiate themselves. They also commonly want it to match their decor. If you cannot provide this type of interface flexibility, I can't see how you can compete.
Dean Roddey
Chairman/CTO, Charmed Quark Systems
www.charmedquark.com
Post 143 made on Tuesday February 20, 2007 at 14:50
weird_ideas
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
October 2005
192


Does MCE even allow you to build a plug in to allow a dealer to create a cutom GUI? Since you are dependent on the limitations of the MCE interface is this why you don't let dealers customize it?


I really don't know, thats why I'm asking.
Post 144 made on Tuesday February 20, 2007 at 14:58
rlustig
Advanced Member
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Posts:
June 2004
915
They have said that MCE isn't required to use the system, so it must be another reason.
Post 145 made on Tuesday February 20, 2007 at 15:00
CoastalHome
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
February 2007
13
rlustig: How about my own home? I think that speaks many more volumes about the belief I have in the product than the number of installs I have done. In an earlier home I had an Elan system and I hated it, as did my wife. We sold that home and moved into a smaller interim home while we build another one. The install in there is a bit temporary as I am waiting for my Niveus N7 running Vista. But I can say this - my wife loves it and that's all that matters to me. She can use it and I don't get grief every time the communication to the t-stat decides to stop working.

My experiece installing it was a piece of cake. All of the wiring infrastrucure was there already when we remodeled the home so all I really had to do was install new subsystems and tie everything together with my Nivues Denali with Life|ware. Did I hit snags? Sure - doesn't everyone? But, more so than the ease of install is the ease of use, which, at the end of the day, is teh most important thing. If it took me twice the amount of time to install I would still love the system because if its ease of use.

Radio Rahim - thanks and let the posters talk all they want. I don't have time to get into arguments with a bunch of people I don't even know. As for the amount of capital Crestron has - that's nothing. Like I said - detractors really should take the time to do research on EI and the team involved, as well as the partners allinged with them.
Post 146 made on Tuesday February 20, 2007 at 15:13
CoastalHome
Long Time Member
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13
weird_ideas: My background is not IT. It's complicated but involves home theater and automation.

I'm not saying crashing once a week is acceptable. Since I've had my Denali it's gone down once. I have it optimized and on a nightly reboot schedule so "crashes" are limited to non existent.

Not sure why the Niveus MCE's crashed on you. My only guess is that they were probably running the Beta version of Vista. I've seen that happen, too. I saw Vista on Niveus two weeks ago and it didn't crash once. Quite the opposite, actually.
Post 147 made on Tuesday February 20, 2007 at 15:13
rlustig
Advanced Member
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June 2004
915
Okay so you put it in your own home. Great. Have you installed it for any paying customers? That is the question. I have put a lot of things in my own home that worked great for me, but I wouldn't sell them.

You had a bad ELan install in your previous home. It happens. There are hundreds if not thousands of ELan installs that were done well and the homeowners love that. Crestron has thousands of installs that are loved by the end users. They have some bad ones too.

The Elan system in my house is fantastic. It works well and is easy to use. Anyone who comes over can make it do anything they want. That is not the point. How many of your paying customers are happy with this system, what kind of 'snags' did you hit? I really want to know these things, I'm not just trying to be a d%^k. I have a meeting set up with my local rep after EHX to discuss this product. I would really like to know about some real world experiences.
Post 148 made on Tuesday February 20, 2007 at 15:19
rlustig
Advanced Member
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915
You were posting at the same time as me. You have your home automation controller reboot every night? This is the same as a crash in the home automation world. It is offline for however long it takes to reboot. I don't see how this is acceptable for a system that is running the critiical subsystems of a home. Lighiting, security, HVAC. The Q controller in my Vantage system has never crashed. The only time it has ever been offline is when I have taken it offline for programming or other changes.

What subsystems are you running in your own home?
Post 149 made on Tuesday February 20, 2007 at 15:26
CoastalHome
Long Time Member
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rlustig: If you are really that interested in knowing more about Life|ware and MCE you really should take the time to visit EI in Columbus and to go through the training. They will show you "real world" installs all the way up to a 12,000 square foot mansion all running Life|ware. One is in the home of EI VP Mike Seamons (he did the install as he owned an integration company out of San Diego). Mike has six kids - it doesn't get more real world than that. I'm sure they can also refer you to some other installers that might be willing to speak about their experiences.

The EI guys can explain and sell it a lot better than I can.

As for how many installs I've done - I'm not in the habit of giving out that kind of information. My business is not that old, though, so it's not a lot. It's mainly been a lot of my friends, business associates and a few others. No major complaints so far. Expecially when I hand the wife the one hand held remote (with real buttons!) they have to use to access all of their digital content.

Ah - you're an Elan dealer. Didn't mean to offend. I have seen some good Elan install, but by in large I think the product is whoefully inadequate.
Post 150 made on Tuesday February 20, 2007 at 15:30
GotGame
Super Member
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Are there any user forums active besides AVSgarbage and [Link: thegreenbutton.com] ?
I may be schizophrenic, but at least I have each other.
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