My TSU9600 is broke and Philips doesn't want to repair it (because I bought it online). Has anyone experienced this, and found a solution?

Did you buy it from an AUTHORIZED online reseller? Or one the the many hack outfits that resells cross-shipped or even stolen goods? If you bought it from a legitimate source, not the site that had the cheapest price, you wouldn't have had this issue.

What is broken on it? Did you contact the people you purchased it from? Did you buy it as new or used?

Just checked, I thought it was an authorized online reseller, but it isn't. I did buy it as new, but the reseller told me the supplier doesn't accept returns. (even though they are new).
However, I often buy from the internet, and I always were able to send the item to the local service team, or call local support. (sometimes without having to pay for it). However, not with Philips... I don't mind paying for service, but just to refuse service...? I will think twice before buying Philips again.

But the problems I have:
My TSU9600 behaves very weird. The touchscreen is not responding. The battery is completely full, and a second later it's completely empty. One second later it's completely full again. The backlight stays on without reason. Even in the cradle it indicates the battery is completely empty while loading. It beeps constantly. (battery full,/battery empty).

I am willing to bet that service wide technologies, the Philips USA repair center will fix it as an out of warranty unit.

This is a vexing problem. Since the World is moving to online selling, producers are going to have to change some of these archaic practices. Blaming the customer is generally not a good way to go.

Why should a seller have to be 'authorised'? It does not make much sense to me. If the product is not stolen, and not a pirate copy, then why should not the buyer be fully protected? I presume the manufacturer still got their money - ie Philips in this case. I can see why a dealer should not have to support products they did not sell (and get paid for), but the manufacturer should always support their products. It should not matter if the customer found it on the side of the road, was given it as a gift, or bought it from a particular outlet.

Philips and URC are some of the worst companies for this sort of practice. They also require their customers to be 'authorised'. URC will only sell to those it thinks are worthy. Philips is slightly better, but not much. Before Philips will give you basic support, you actually have to pass a written (albeit online) test on knowledge of their products! Macabre!

If your car breaks down, does your dealer require a written test from you on car mechanics or a demonstration of driving skill before it repairs your car - or even sells you an accessory? It is ludicrous.

I can see the manufacturer quibbling about a warranty repair (even then, it should know when they sold it - they have the serial number). But to simply refuse all repair is not on.

Based on the facts given, I think this user has a legitimate beef.

How does a manufacturer know that the item was not stolen and resold? Entire truckloads of goods are stolen and resold online every day. Alot of electronics companies are going to this type of tech support, prove you got it from a legitimate source before theywill help you.


Because an authorized reseller is your first line of tech support. They have training on the products that they are selling, not only to help support the items, but also to make sure their customers get the right product in the first place.

If the product is not stolen, and not a pirate copy, then why should not the buyer be fully protected?

See above.

I presume the manufacturer still got their money - ie Philips in this case.

See above.

I can see why a dealer should not have to support products they did not sell (and get paid for), but the manufacturer should always support their products. It should not matter if the customer found it on the side of the road, was given it as a gift, or bought it from a particular outlet.

So you are saying, that any product should be supported by the manufacturer, no matter the condition or history of it? Dealer X orders 1,000 units from a manufacturer on credit, then goes out of business and sells the units to a liquidator, leaving the manufacturer paid pennies on the dollar for the product. That also happens alot, (Tweeter, Circuit City, Comp USA), the manufacturer should support those units too? They didn't get paid for those units, why should they support them?


Customers, umm, NO, dealers, YES. Neither company restricts who dealers sell to.

URC will only sell to those it thinks are worthy.

I've seen URC products in Wal-Mart, target, Best Buy, and others. So, it must not take much to be "worthy".

Philips is slightly better, but not much. Before Philips will give you basic support, you actually have to pass a written (albeit online) test on knowledge of their products! Macabre!

As a cunsomer, that is absolutly NOT TRUE. As a dealer, it is correct, you need to have working knowledge of the product before you can sell it. You have to be a dealer before you can get dealer-level tech support.


This is one of the most absurd comparisons I have ever seen. If your car broke down, then the MANUFACTURER would absolutly require proof that you were a dealer before THEY would support you. They support the dealers, not the end users, the dealers support you. Phillips DOES NOT sell remotes to end users and therefore does not HAVE to support end users, that is why they have a dealer network, same as the automotive industry.



It is not a manufacturer's responsibility to keep track of every item that they produce. Some of them do. Let's say the item in question came from a stolen container, and the manufacturer kept track of the serial numbers. The customer could get a knock on the door from local law enforcement for receiving stolen goods. Better yet, since odds are it came across state lines, it would be a Federal offence and he would be looking at jail time.
If you don't think that would be a possibility, that's exactly what the early users of Napster said, until the record industry sent the Feds after them.


The facts are, he bought it online from an UNAUTHORIZED e-tailer, period.

HNNY Benelux ( the official distributor of pronto in the Netherlands ) will only fix units that they have suplied. they will check the serial number. if it is bought in the US, you will have to send it back to a us service center. that is the risk when you think you are buying a cheap unit. service is also worth something!!

Ye your right service is almost as much worth as your pronto its self. Thats why i always buy from an official distributor you cant know what happent to your product when you buy it online.

Don't you think it's strange that a dutch company, doesn't have a dutch service center? The prontos are made in Belgium, a neighboring country of The Netherlands. (But I have to get it back to the US to get service)


Can someone give me a list or address of US service centers? I don't mind paying, as I took a risk by buying online. You know the pronto costs $ 1819,- in Europe, and I paid $ 854,- for it in the US. What's the normal price in the US, about $ 979,-. Still quite a big difference for what they're asking in Europe, isn't it?

They told me they will fix the unit, only after I paid the price difference between what I've paid for it and what they're charging in The Netherlands, in addition to the repair costs. For that price I can buy it again in the US....

You might be correct for the domestic level remotes. But like Philips, URC does not sell their 'professional' grade remotes to the public. When I bought my URC MX900, I had to jump through hoops to get it. Very hard to get as a customer - again, like Philips, they try to restrict to whom they sell.



It IS true. And I am definitely a customer - not a dealer. I had to jump through hoops to get basic support. I had to complete an online test to even get the manual! I then had to do more tests to get basic sample code.

This policy might be acceptable if you are in the USA - like many people, I am not. I cannot go through a dealer - as far as I know, there are none within a 1,000 miles of me. I have no option but to buy online from someone. Buying from an 'authorised' dealer at least doubles the price. Plus add a huge freight margin as well. If you are not in the USA, these remotes cost a fortune. In Australia, my TSU9400 costs around $1,800 from a dealer. Online, I paid $600. There is no comparison. I don't mind paying a reasonable premium for service, but I am not stupid.

And the whole premise is wrong, I think. The idea (I guess) is that these things are too complex for a non dealer to setup. ie you need special training or something. This is quite wrong. The MX900 was child's play to 'program'. Probably easier than a Harmony. The Pronto is a little bit harder - but any technical savvy user can do it. Maybe not Prontoscript, but everything else is simple.

Perhaps my car analogy was not quite on the money. Let us try a RAID controller card then. It costs around the same as the pronto. This is in fact quite a difficult thing to install, especially if something goes wrong - you have to know a LOT about computers, hard drives, BIOS, RAID configuration, etc, before you attempt this. I bought from an online box-mover (not a dealer, if there is such a thing). I then called the manufacturer for assistance when I had issues. No problems at all. They even rang me back and eventually fixed my problems The seller did not ask if I was experienced enough, and did not ask me to sit a test. The manufacturer did not ask where I bought the card, or when, or from whom - did not even care. I will certainly buy their hardware again (it was Adaptec).

That definitely is baddest business behaviour!
They may charge you for the repair and s&h but NOT a difference in product price.

That way I'd argument that I bought it for 4.000,- € in (some small country far away) and get a refund from them. Period.

I'm not going to get into a great debate about international trade policies and why things cost more in some countries than in others. We all know that $15 CD in US can be had for $.40 (40 cents) in Russia for example. Same record, same CD, why the difference in price? My friend flew from US to Germany last year, was put up in hotel for a week, was given a tour of the BMW plant, test drove the vehicle he was considering purchasing (for several days), had the car shipped to US, AND still paid less than he would have in the US, a lot less. Bottom line is that tariffs and freight and free market dictate pricing.
I'm not condoning what you're doing, as long as you understand what particular MFG's policies, and the way they handle warranty work.
Your analogy for the RAID controller is solid, but misplaced. PC component MFGs understand that they don't provide complete solution. As result, they know that issues are going to arise and charge a markup accordingly. You know looking at that card of yours that there is less than 50 bucks worth of parts on that board. Rest is IP (intellectual property) and markup.
You can't say the same thing about the remote controller.
The reason for jumping thru hoops to get a manual is that as an end-user, you shouldn't have to read the manual (BTW, didn't the box come with CD/DVD?). I use my family and friends as guinea pigs when it comes to my configurations. If they can figure things out in 45sec or less, I've done my job. If not, I need to do more work. My clients don't need nor want a manual.
Remote controllers are all about how you configure the interface. I don't know what kind of tech support answers Philips could provide end-users. I can really see only two scenarios:
1. You broke the remote (cracked it open, battery died, button is not responding, etc). You get with the dealer who sold/programmed the unit, and he helps you.
2. Your remote isn't working right due to configuration, or you bough new TV and now controller won't work. Again, you contact the dealer and he fixes the issue.

I know you say you don't have a dealer for 1000 miles. I understand and sympathize with you.
When I started my business, there were no training or support in my state. I had to fly all over the place to attend paid vendor trainings. That was price of admission. You're seem to be in similar boat. So either talk to local CI outfits about the need to carry this product, or purchase product that is locally available and supported. I know there are still things I see in publications that I would like to have but can't because I live in the BFE.

Last resort, send it to the repair facility for out of warranty service.

Mario

Try these guys.

www.servicewidetech.com

Here is my understanding. Not saying this is 100% correct but bits and pieces of what I've heard over the years.

In EU, the dealer supports customer, warrants remote, and usually does the repairs if under warranty. If I understand correctly, the dealer incurs some of the warranty repair cost. Therefore, it is, IMO, completely within the dealer's right to refuse to repair an item that will cost them money if said item was not purchased through and authorized channel (dealer X can inform dealer Y that a repair was done in dealer X's shop on a remote sold by dealer Y in hopes of recouping some losses).

In the US, things are different. All service goes through ServiceWideTech (SWT) and the warranty determination is made there and IIRC, Philips is usually billed for the cost provided dealer was authorized and remote is not stolen.

Edit - From a post following this one, I've been corrected that the dealer pays for the parts involved in warranty work.