Hey yous,

I'm just trying to develop a new concept of doing an old task.

I'm on a boat with two Sat antennas. At the moment, I use x-panel to either manually stay on port or starboard antenna or auto switch them based on which one has better signal. When we're maneuvering or swinging on anchor the picture is cutting out all the time and pissing off my guests.

In the two antenna stablizers (Seatel TAC92's) there's a setting where I can close a contact whenever it's inside a certain degree of azimuth. The main dead zone is the mast. When the antenna is pointed at the mast (and blocked from the satellite) I could make a contact close. I want that contact to tell the Extron Matrix 6400 to switch inputs to whatever dish that has good view of the satellite AKA open contact.

I have a feeling that the Crestron Rack is somehow sensing the signal and telling the Matrix to switch. I can actually hear a relay or something click when the dishes are swapped.


So to sum this all up. My Rack2 is right next to the Extron Matrix, TV RF cabling and sat controllers. Do you think a programmer could use a couple contact closures to control my rig?

I think I have all the crestron programming files. See my old thread on RCforums.

The digi-I/O ports on the RAC2 should be able to sense a contact closure(relay) from the antenna stabilizers and then based on that state (open or close) change an input, yes.

Actually, we have no way of knowing if your programmer could make this happen. "thecynic315" is making an incorrect statement about the RACK2. Unlike other Crestron processors this chassis is just a card frame. Unless you have an existing I/O card that has open ports already in the RACK2 then it is not possible. I highly doubt that your card frame is entirely full. If it is then would you please adopt me and let me live on your mega yacht. I will take care of all of your Crestron programming for you in exchange :-D

The RACK2 and a programmer with source code should be able to make your idea a reality. You may have to spend a little bit on a C2N-IO8 card (might be a CNX-IO8, I dont have the price sheet open) to get the relay state into the processor. IF your card frame IS full then your programmer could add an ST-IO Cresnet black box to get the relay state into the processor. OR he could add most any of the ethernet based processors in a slaved configuration to simply extend the ports of the RACK2. Either way you will have to spend some money if you do not already have all the needed equipment. HTH.

There's a few pad8's and an AV2 nearby as well. Can I just find any crestron device that has some I/O and get it to relay to the Rack?

My Rack has:
C2Enet2
C2IR-8
C2IR-8
C2IR-8
C2IR-8
C2Com-3
C2Com-3
C2Com-3
C2Com-3
C2Com-3
C2Com-3
CNX I/O-16
C2Y-Hub8

I think I have a spare I/O card here somewhere.

Is the CNX I/O 16 full? If not then you have what you need plus some programming.

How big is this boat? You have 64+ IR devices? 18 serially controlled devices?

267'

My next question would be, "how can i tell if there's a free port on the CNX without tearing things apart?" From what I can see, Toolbox doesn't really give me a good idea.

Looking at it is the fastest way, the programmers might have another option. On a boat that size (which probaby is worth $50-100m or more), and on a Crestron system of that size I would expect you to have fully updated very detailed system schematics. I would also expect you to have a full service agreement with a very competent AV company and full remote access for an engineer and programmer. Most yacht service agreements also include fast response onsite service visits if required.

I am very curious is this not the case (no service agreement?), or something went wrong with the original AV company?

P.S. I am guessing you are one of the engineers or the head engineer onboard with not much Crestron experience and you have been assigned the impossible task to maintain the Crestron system?

If you have the source code and simpl windows, you can open the program and check for yourself.

You'll see 'slots' as the top of the hierarchy. Double click on the CNX I/O 16 slot, and look for empty blue lines, or blue lines with no text. This will tell you how many available ports are on that card.

Or print screen the window and post here.

Or dropbox the code and send me an invite. I'd sure love to see that program...

Hell of a vessel you have there.

You are right about almost all of it.

I can give the original company remote access easily (I use teamviewer BTW). There is a problem with that company though. No diagrams and no labelling. I like them personally but they have been bending the boat over for years by not telling (the guys before me) how it's all put together or supplying us with documentation. There's binders of autocad drawings of the equipment itself LOL... like I care what the dimensions of the front of a TPS2000 are. I want to know where the cables are going and what number they are when they get to the spaghetti on the other end! Where's the diagram!? Gimme! I'll pay for programming but not for someone to tell me that stuff. When stuff fails in the middle of the night (we're in Turkey right now) I can't get a guy to come onboard to rip a panel open and find a dead power supply (wherever it is). I'm on my own and need to get it done fast. Don't even get me started with the Lutron stuff.

I have built visio drawings and started physically labelling cables as I go in hopes of someday getting to a point where we could CHOOSE to use them instead of them having us by the short-n-curlies.

My management company tells me I'm not allowed to use them anymore.... but they don't understand that, "It's not as easy as changing internet provider. It's more like trying to change the color of your skin."

I missed your post Mike. That was some great info, too. I get all hot and bothered when I think about the original installer... Got a little carried away there.

I'll have a look and show you what I find.

Thanks!

Deepsea, I know you don't want to pay some one, especially the original company, for documentation/schematics. That creates a problem in some ways. Most companies do charge for this type of documentation. There can be many man hours of labor involved with a system as complex as what you are dealing with. It sounds to me like it would be worth it to pay the original installer $5k to create the documents so that you can choose to use someone else. It's a small price to pay to be able to pick your integrator and your programmer. It is also an amount of money that makes it worth it for the original integrator to actually provide the documents. Make sure they do it in Visio, since you are already using Visio, and even if it is not 100% accurate or complete it is a head start on what you are trying to do on your own. It sucks that you are having to make the attempt to document this yourself.

If you have a copy of the source code I would be happy to take a look at it for you to determine if the CNX-I/O card is full or has a couple of empty ports.

Deapsea,

I have sent you an email yesterday.

Brain,

I am not sure 5k would cut it. The last yacht we tried to document on a very similar situation we spent 5 days onboard and they were not enough. And that yacht was "only" 150 ft. There were too many small headends and cables going back and forth.

I would say you easily need 15-20 days to trace and also check everything on a system similar to deepseas'. In adddition to that easily 2 to 3 weeks to preapare the documentation and a detailed report on the system. Finally it might be good to go back onsite and label everything or check more stuff that would surface through the documentation and the reports.

It is a shame that many mega systems can be found in similar kind of situations.

that is beyond comprehension that someone would sell and install that type of system with no D&E documentation. you need to ask the owner to look at the contract and what was to be provided for them. i think they have it but, dont want to give it up!

The truth though is we do not know the whole story and you might not know it either. If the customer insisted that he does not accept the 50k engineering and documentation fee and the original installer agreed with the customer that he will do the job but he will not provide any kind of documentation then maybe there is no one to blame here other than the customer.

It is still kind inexcusable though not to have documentaion and a service agreement on such kind of system. Leaving that system on its own and just patching it up when problems occur would gradually make the system unusable and nothing will be able to "save" it other than ripping most of it out and spending hunrdeds of thousands, even millions to fix it and bring it up to standard. This was the case with the boat I described above and both the original installer and the customer were to blame for the situation.

Documentation was part of the deal. They gave me tonnes. The problem is that the owner's representative didn't really understand what proper documentation was.... They gave him beautiful binders with cad drawings of hardware, 120 page (printed pdf's LOL) user manuals, and line drawings that show Linn is connected to rack... that's it. There's no drawing that says Linn's aux 2 input is cable number XXX-XX fed from Matrix input xx to the rack via Extron twisted pair line drivers.

If you remove a Linn unit and unplug everything (which the previous dude that had my job did) and not label anything... you're screwed. You have to use the process of elimination until things work right. That's an easy one though. Try doing that on the rack end of things - it's impossible. You pick up a cable and it says Matrix 32 - yep it's plugged into 32.. it doesn't tell you where it's coming from though?

If I told my boss I wanted 15K to document the AV system he'd tell me to pack my bags. The original company owes me this stuff. But to be honest, as soon as the idiot on the boat's side signed off on the installer's work and documentation they were free to go (if they have a no conscience).

So in the end it's our fault for being stupid. The contract should always state what the documentation should be. If the client doesn't know what usefull documentation is then they should find someone that does before any contracts are signed. But there's always the chance that a true professional is doing your install and has already considered what it's going to be like to fault find for a guy like me in the middle of the ocean all by his lonesome. sniffle sniffle.

Wow. I can't believe how worked up I get over this crap.