I have read the whole thing. I will never get that time back either.

after reading what you percieved to be a useless thread and using time you will never get back, you post a useless reply and eat up more time? strange.

1. Comparing metric with HDMI is apples/oranges. Metric didn't have a very paranoid Hollywood industry breathing down its neck.

2. There are now many manufacturers that make HDMI cables that "lock in" to the connector. I suggest you replace your "wiggle" wire with locking type.

3. Seriously? You've never had an S-video connector fall out or loosen enough for it to stop working? Just so we're on the same page, I'll assume you're talking about the mini 4-pin DIN connector and not two BNC or RCA connectors that split the S-video signal into its two parts. While not perfect, I will take an HDMI connector over the mini DIN any day of the week.

Thankfully, very few on this site have your attitude. Your one-line "zingers" may be entertaining -at least to yourself- but they're less than helpful to say the least.

I didn't post here to impose on Crestron professionals, or circumvent custom installers by a hatchet-job DIY install. I was trying to get several difficult questions answered so that I could be a knowledgable customer with a certified Crestron dealer/installer.

I didn't expect so much information or controversy to come from this, but I'm glad it did. Because I know others will search and stumble into this thread in seeking how/whether to upgrade their A/V distribution system to component or HDMI. The continuous changes in technology are difficult to keep up with -even for those who are technically proficient.

With a much higher level of understanding, I spent considerable time on the phone with my Crestron dealer this morning, who we've known for a long time. I discussed my concerns, many of the thoughts and ideas that have been tossed out in this thread, and options.

He has no problem in a DM solution (and has done a number of them). But it will require restringing cable to all zone TVs, because HDMI/Crestnet requires more than just the two current Cat5 wires. Not impossible, but it would require a couple days of my time. And he advised if we do it, then we should do a single cable with 2 Cat6, 1 shielded 4 conductor (for Crestnet), plus 2 fiber (for future). I'm REALLY not excited about doing that, but I'm less excited about putting $20k into a system and then having to do it anyway within the next ten years.

He's willing to go with an AV2, but really thinks it's a poor decision based on where technology is heading, and knowing with 100% certainty that we'll still own this same house 10 years from now. He still suggested an MC3, and offered to swap it out for a more expandable AV3 at cost when it becomes available. He said it's a 10-minute programming changeover.

His opinion, both from experience and bailing out other installers is that very few HDMI switchers have worked out all the handshaking issues - especially with signal protection, such as Motorola cable boxes [I'm sure some of you know what he's talking about]. But he's had excellent success with Crestron DM... it's just the higher additional cost that is a deterrent. Going DM would also require us to change out a couple flat-panel TVs that don't have HDMI, since you can't downconvert at the zone end.

Audio distribution would still be through the Pad8A, but he offered to take back the new Lexicon DD-8 distribution amps (which were nice, but lacked low-end response) for the Sonnex Swamp 24x8. I just hope the sound will be as good as with our previous 120w Class AB distribution amps.

Now, other than a painful rewiring, 50+% additional cost, and a "forever" commitment to Crestron (which has pros and cons), I'm trying to figure out if there are any downsides to this decision :-)

DM will work with just 1 cat5e cable, with the newest 8G+ firmware. No cresnet or power is required, you can power the room boxes either locally or by PoE through the same cat5e. The room box which is the Crestron box behind the tv that will "convert the cat5e back to HDMI" will also provide control for the tv, it has both IR and RS232 ports. The room box will also provide ethernet out i.e network, if you would like to connect your tv to the internet/network. And I repeat again, the DM room box will work with 1 cat5e cable.

The extra cables your installer adviced to run are not necessary and you do not need them. In a perfect world it would be best if you run those also provided you have the money/time. If you do run them I would change one of the cat6 to Crestron CBL-DM-8G and use that one for your DM system. Also the cresnet cable is not needed any more:The only minor reason to run it is because when using fiber room boxes I would prefer to provide power from a central location so that I can reboot the boxes using IP power rebooters, but I am really using it as romex in this scenario, and I doubt this is why your installer suggested it.

Honestly, there is no downside. You are going for the top, the state of the art that exists in our industry for AV distribution and you are as bulletproof as you can be at this time.

Regarding processor I would go with the 3 series ones, especially with the free upgrade proposition to an AV3 . You will be controlling your tvs using the IR/RS232 from the DM room boxes so you are freeing ports there compared to the PVID solution which I assumed it was over coaxial cables and no room boxes behind tvs.

He beat me to everything I was thinking. This is your solution. I'll add that if you can pull it off, add flexible conduit to each video location, as there is nothing more futureproof than a tube to pull wires through. This is an option that I just about force most of my clients to take. I can't tell you how often this has saved us from some very major headaches over the last 5 years.

Ok, I'm a bit confused...
Is the DM-RMC-100 the Crestron box for each zone?

Isn't Crestnet (and at least one additional Cat5) required if we want to control local components in that zone via remote RF=>IR?

Did DM used to require two Cat5 wires (what are the two RJ-45 inputs labelled "D" and "M" on the DM-RMC)?

We do already have two Cat5, but adding anything else means pulling all new wire.

Yes, RMCs are known as roomboxes, and you need one at each display or remote equipment stack.

There have been multiple versions of the DM-RMC-100 using Copper or Fiber.  The newest one using the DM-8G technology only needs a single cat5 (DM8g cable if possible) or fiber depending on the version.  The original units had 2 RJ45 connectors as well as a special Cresnet for DM connection, for a total of 3 wires to each box.  Somehow, they have magically made it possible to condense this to a single cable!

All versions of the DM roomboxes to date have also offered a single bidirectional serial (RS-232), 2 IR ports (can also be used as 1-way serial), and an ethernet port.  So, it is possible to achieve all that you are trying to do via a single cable.

The new "inexpensive" DM stuff will be available soon, but keep in mind that the 6x6 switcher will be HDMI only.  A 6x6 with 6) 8g roomboxes retails for around 10k, so based on what you've told us about your project, it shouldn't blow up the budget too badly.  Pricelist says available Sep 23 of this year.  I don't remember ever seeing a specific release date like that from them before.    

That explains everything, including why the dealer thought we needed two Cat5 plus Crestnet. It's not that he isn't a knowledgeable Crestron dealer, but where we are the DM installations are not an everyday thing. I'm assuming there's no disadvantage to the RMC-100-C (8G) over the std RMC-100.

This morning he suggested to wait until after Cedia and see if the outlook/timeframe for Crestron equipment is more clear (i.e. AV3). By then, he'll also have a new MLX3 remote to see if we like it as well as the URC remotes.

Overall, I'm not as concerned about blowing up the budget as I am getting a system that doesn't require updating or changing in the foreseeable future. This is both stressful and expensive :-)

Thank you very much Valens Semiconductor! HDBaseT Rules!

http://www.valens-semi.com/

+1000

JBS seriously you won't regret going DM. You probably will regret not going DM though.

I will go on and say there are "professionals" on this board (quotes intentional) and then there are people like me and few others that don't think they are better than their customers.

I treat my customers (any of them) equal, I don't care if you have 500 million bucks or 5 bucks I treat you the same, Or even if your on an online community named remotecentral.com I think most good dealers want you educated, and knowing what you want and need.

There is no downside to DM (except the cost to get into it, which I think may change at cedia this year)

Actually, we did one better...
When we originally built the house on a slope with a daylight basement 23 years ago when things like Cat5 and fiber didn't even exist, we poured 10ft foundation walls and then dropped the ceiling to standard 8ft. It gives us unlimited wiring access to the upstairs and downstairs walls without opening up sheetrock. We've upgraded our centralized lighting system twice, and this will be our 3rd A/V distribution upgrade... which thanks to DM8G won't require rewiring now.

Which lighting system? You should connect that to Crestron also along with HVAC. Some ipads for whole house control and remote redundancy are not a bad idea either. The system is more than capable to handle this. Also have a look at the MTX-3 remote. More expensive than the MLX-3 but it has a touchscreen.