Transport keys should ne words not symbols. But looks good.

I agree with you completely but the problem with words is that the manufacturers wont come up with a standard. Example:

Skip Back for DirecTV is Replay
Skip Back for Comcast is Replay
Skip Back for Dish Network is Skip Back
Skip Back for any DVD player is Skip Back or Track Back

The problem with calling it "Skip Back" is that words are very powerful. If the manual or menu ever prompt someone to use the "Replay" button and it does not exist you will get a phone call the next day asking where the button is.

Since the Skip Back button and Replay Button are essentially the same its redundant IMO to have them both as hard buttons. Removing them completely because of the discrepancy isnt a good option because then half the DVR buttons are on the touchscreen and half are hard buttons.

Using the symbols is a better option on the handheld IMO because its easy to train your mind to know that back arrows with a stick takes you back a little then stops. Using a handheld remote is like using a cell phone. Once the customer has it for a while, they use it so much that they dont even know what buttons they are pressing anymore. Their hand just knows where the buttons are.

Again.. i agree that the symbols are not the best way to go but i think this is where we have to pick our battles and choose the best option. IMO the best option is having all the transport buttons together and not having redundant buttons that cause confusion.

For touchscreens i always have the symbol and the word.

This is obviously all for fun but i think my remote is pretty good. After reading the post and looking at the remote maybe the answer would be to use words for the common buttons and symbols for the others.

Well although we are killing the thread with this, if I was to critique your creation a little more. I think the biggest short coming as of this point is the lack of tactile difference between keys. Especially the undersizing of the the probably most common buttons: ch+/- vol+/-

Personally I think a round Nav directional pad is cheap. Maybe kick it up a notch and make the center Enter button also a slightly raised thumb stick for scrolling lists...?

WOW. i didnt realize just how far off peoples idea's of what the ideal remote should look like are from eachother. with all due respect i am VERY GLAD you have nothing to do with designing any of URC's remotes!!!

FYI...

My sketch is meant for what hard buttons should be on the remote.. Not what it should actually look like.. Hence the stick figure sketch.

Are you telling me that my idea of what hard buttons are bad? If so please tell me what your idea of good hard buttons would be.

Did you read the whole thread or are you assuming my stick figure sketch is an attempt at visual and ergonomic design? The stick figure sketch i spent all of 20 minutes on was meant to be a visual aid while talking about the hard buttons i would like to see on a hand held remote.

On a side note.. while i agree my sketch is ugly and cheap looking.. AMX doesnt seem to think so. Looks pretty close to what they have IMO:)

I intent wasn't to pick on how it looks, but you do have buttons of various size. I just thought if you took the time to adjust the size of any, I would mention that you picked IMO the wrong ones...that's all.

Considering Crestron and AMX are suppost to be the top two in home control, you would think they'd have the ability to could come up with some more aesthstically pleasing remote designs.

I dont work with AMX so i dont keep up with their product line. After i posted that pic of the AMX remotes i went to take a look at them. A very cool thing they do is let you engrave the buttons. This would help contol what buttons are on the remote. Crestrons new handheld is a joke.

I didnt spend any time thinking about button size and very little about placement. I pulled out 5 remotes that i had handy and made a list of what each one had and came up with a list of what i thought a universal remote's hard buttons should be.

I think Stealth put it best.

The reality is, different people's ideal remote is different. You may have experienced a unity in what your customers want, but that's probably because you're a good salesperson and are good at convincing people that what you want to sell is what they have always wanted. That is the essence of a good salesperson. Whether you're a natural at it, or you have to work on it, you've made it clear that you're getting results, so hats off to you in that regard.

But the simple truth is, if there was one ideal design for a universal remote, URC and all of our competitors would long since have zeroed in on that "perfect design," and by now we'd all be competing with each other on some new, higher-level "feature set that no one universally agrees on."

If it's any consolation, my own personal view is also that ON and OFF buttons are more often confusing than helpful. However, I'm only one member of our product design team, so sometimes my suggestions come to the forefront, and other times they don't.

Best regards,
Dale

My obsession with this started after looking at the new Crestron remote. It actually got me depressed. I started pushing this snowball up the hill and once i got to what i thought was the top BOB L reminded me that i didnt have words on the transport keys. This is something i have preached for years and its why i put the word under the symbol on touchscreens. Then i took a look at URC's remotes and realized you guys have done away with symbols and only have words. Ive worked with URC so long that i dont even pay attention to it anymore because everyone loves it. Then as a joke i posted pics of the AMX remote and that got me to go to the AMX site and check out the handhelds. So my opinoin has changed/evolved many times over the last few days.

Heres what happens.. once you begin to put your wish list together its really easy to get carried away. On a touchscreen only controller i put what i want on the screen and no one ever gets confused (including me). Not everyone wants a touchscreen in every room so we need handhelds. With universal handheld remotes we run into the problem of what buttons should be on it.

So as of right now.. this is what i think needs to happen for the higher end remotes anyway.. From what i read at the AMX site i was led to beleive that the buttons can be engraved. This reminded me of what we do with Crestron keypads. We decide what the buttons will be and order them. What about skins? What if we could layout the remote online and have skins printed and shipped? I better get back to what i do in real life now :)

You would probably get a kick out of the dozens upon dozens of design drawings on my hard drive for each remote I've worked on at URC. It's actually quite amazing to watch a product evolve from the initial idea to a finished product. Each person on the team sees their ideas come and go through the design iterations, until finally a version pops up that everyone looks at and says, "yes... that's it."

Best regards,
Dale

Dale,

Just a couple of quick comments/suggestions on the KP900 which I think is a nice option for certain situations.

A slight re-design with round hard buttons for numbers 0 - 9 would give it much more flexibility in device control. If it were up to me I'd shave off 1/16" (or 3/32) off the bottom of the top row of buttons, the same for the top of bottom row buttons, move the middle section up 1/16" closer to top buttons which would then leave you room for those round number buttons above the bottom row of buttons.

It would be cool to have the option of a wired wall docking station for re-charging batteries.

Just my $.02 anyway.

Oh, and to keep the thread somewhat on track the mx450 looks nice. Is it compatible with the PCL-300? If not, is there a replacement that does the same thing? Starting with a template of code is vital for programming this type of remote imho.

Cheers,
Steve Sweeney

Well, the reason the KP-900 doesn't have numeric keys is that it's meant as a zone2-6 keypad, not as a primary controller. The installers who helped us design it universally rejected a keypad in favor of channel macros, since numeric keys are generally used for zone 1 channel selection, not for zone 2-6 source and volume control. Should we attack a zone 1 keypad, I would expect we'll add more primary function control to the design. And yeah, we knew the keypad-less design wasn't going to appeal to everyone, but we wanted to address the very large retro market where the ability to add zone 2-6 keypads without running wires was a huge benefit to the installer. Future products may address different concerns or focuses.

Right now I don't have any information on PCL-300 compatibility with the MX-450. To be honest, I'm actually out of that loop. I would guess that if we have anything to say in that regard, we'd probably have the info ready for CEDIA.

Best regards,
Dale

Can one 450 be cloned to another?

Thanks