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RCA RCRP05B, 5 device learning remote...
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| Topic: | RCA RCRP05B, 5 device learning remote limitations This thread has 11 replies. Displaying all posts. |
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| Post 1 made on Sunday October 25, 2009 at 15:21 |
raptor88 New Member |
Joined: Posts: | October 2009 12 |
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Found the RCA RCRP05B learning remote by browsing these forums. I like the button layout and the way it corresponds to my cable DVR remote. I want to use one to control:
Panasonic E100H DVD Recorder with HDD Panasonic S29 DVD player Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300 DVR Sony Wega 32" CRT TV Set (soon to be a Samsung LCD 1080p set)
I suspect that the RCRP05B will have preinstalled codes for the bottom 3 devices but the E100H DVDR may be a problem. I may even have to apply learning to every button including the number pad buttons. From past experience with other learning remotes, there are always two concerns:
1. Some keys cannot receive learned codes. I don't mean macros but just single button learned codes.
2. Insufficient memory to learn all of the buttons needed.
Would very much appreciate if someone can tell me which buttons cannot receive "single button" learned codes (not macros). I do have a picture of the layout of the buttons that I can reference so actual button names will work.
Also, do you think that the RCRP05B will have enough memory to learn every key (48) of the E100H remote if need be? (If the play, pause type controls and the number pad keys don't have to be learned, then there will be about 32 keys to learn.) This of course would be in addition to any keys for the bottom 3 devices that need to be learned.
Thanks, Raptor
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| Post 2 made on Sunday October 25, 2009 at 22:41 |
3FG Regular Member |
Joined: Posts: | August 2009 54 |
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The RCRP05B has about 5 Kbytes of memory for learned codes. The memory needed to learn a key varies with the quality of the learn, but a typical learn takes 25 bytes. So you may be able to get close to 200 learned keys before running out of memory. Typically learning is not allowed to the Setup Key, the device keys, and sometimes the master power key.
The files section in this forum has a CCF file for the DMR-E80H, and over at the best resource for UEI remotes www.hifi-remote.com/forums/, there is an upgrade file for a DMR-E95H. In the File Section, one can download free tools which tell us what protocol, device numbers, and function numbers are used by the two similar model numbers. (RemoteMaster and DecodeCCF)
So it is easy (since I already have those tools loaded) to find out that a likely fit for your DMR-E100H is Panasonic protocol (no surprise there!), device 176 subdevice 0. As you probably know, that is unfortunately also matches the Pany S29. I surmise that your 100H is using the setting for Code 2 (subdevice 16) or Code 3 (subdevice 32) in order to avoid crosstalk between the two Panasonic devices. Your new remote probably doesn't have a setup code for those subdevices, although it has quite a few very new setup codes.
But there should be plenty of room for learning. By the way, the DVD code is probably 0490.
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| Post 3 made on Sunday October 25, 2009 at 23:25 |
raptor88 New Member |
Joined: Posts: | October 2009 12 |
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On October 25, 2009 at 22:41, 3FG said...
The RCRP05B has about 5 Kbytes of memory for learned codes. The memory needed to learn a key varies with the quality of the learn, but a typical learn takes 25 bytes. So you may be able to get close to 200 learned keys before running out of memory. Typically learning is not allowed to the Setup Key, the device keys, and sometimes the master power key. The files section in this forum has a CCF file for the DMR-E80H, and over at the best resource for UEI remotes www.hifi-remote.com/forums/, there is an upgrade file for a DMR-E95H. In the File Section, one can download free tools which tell us what protocol, device numbers, and function numbers are used by the two similar model numbers. (RemoteMaster and DecodeCCF) So it is easy (since I already have those tools loaded) to find out that a likely fit for your DMR-E100H is Panasonic protocol (no surprise there!), device 176 subdevice 0. As you probably know, that is unfortunately also matches the Pany S29. I surmise that your 100H is using the setting for Code 2 (subdevice 16) or Code 3 (subdevice 32) in order to avoid crosstalk between the two Panasonic devices. Your new remote probably doesn't have a setup code for those subdevices, although it has quite a few very new setup codes. But there should be plenty of room for learning. By the way, the DVD code is probably 0490. 3FG,
Thanks for your very informative reply! You hit the nail on the head with your observation that the Panny E100H DVDR is using Code-2 to avoid cross talk with the Panny S29 DVD player. I should remember NOT to buy the same brand of DVD player in the future to prevent the crosstalk problem between similar units.
I guess the upgrade files that you referred to need a RP1 cable to load the remote. I don't have that so will just teach all of the Code-2 codes to the 48 or so required keys.
With memory for close to 200 learned keys, it should be no problem getting a RCRP05B to work for my situation. I'll pick one up and give it a shot.
Thanks! Raptor
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| Post 4 made on Thursday October 29, 2009 at 02:05 |
raptor88 New Member |
Joined: Posts: | October 2009 12 |
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I received the RCA RCRP05B remote that I ordered from ebay today. It came naked unboxed in a bubble wrap mailer without instructions. I managed to find the user manual for it online and downloaded it. But there are no device codes in that user manual.
I went to hifi-remote.com and found the "setup codes". I'm having the following problems:
TV: Sony Wega 0000: Two flashes = accepted. Performed the "Unlock Channel Control" to allow the CH+-, numberpad and last buttons to work. Everything works fine.
DVR/Aux: Panasonic E100H DVDR 0176: one long flash = did not accept. (The 0176 was from 3FG's suggestion above but I'm not sure if it should be "0176". I'll probably have to teach all of the keys in learn mode anyway.)
CBL/Sat: Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300 DVR 1877: Two flashes = accepted. Everything seems to work so far. (Found the 1877 code on another forum. It is not in the hifi-remote setup codes list.)
DVD/VCR: Panasonic S29 0490: Two flashes = accepted. Everything working.
AUD: Teac AG780 Receiver 0163, 0463, 0174, 0180, 0393, 0420: all give one long flash = did not accept.
I'm not sure if the "setup codes" on that webpage are the correct ones for the RCA RCRP05B remote. Is there another list of device codes for the RCRP05B remote elsewhere that I can try?
The device code for the Teac AG780 receiver would be very helpful.
Thanks for any help, Raptor
Last edited by raptor88 on October 29, 2009 02:53.
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| Post 5 made on Thursday October 29, 2009 at 03:26 |
3FG Regular Member |
Joined: Posts: | August 2009 54 |
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The E100H will almost certainly have to be learned, because it is operating on an alternate code. I mentioned 176, but that is not a setup code, but rather the device number that the remote should send to the E100H along with a function number, and the subdevice number 16.
The 8300 usually works with Cable 1877.
The Teac may be a pain. Most Teac units use the NEC1 protocol, but it seems like each model uses a different device and subdevice number. So there are two issues: 1) what device/subdevice is used by the AG780, and 2) does the remote have a setup number that matches those numbers and has function numbers that fit.
I haven't seen any info on the ag780, but try Audio 2098 and 1074. Also 1077, 2169.
Last edited by 3FG on October 29, 2009 03:40.
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| Post 6 made on Thursday October 29, 2009 at 07:12 |
raptor88 New Member |
Joined: Posts: | October 2009 12 |
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On October 29, 2009 at 03:26, 3FG said...
The E100H will almost certainly have to be learned, because it is operating on an alternate code. I mentioned 176, but that is not a setup code, but rather the device number that the remote should send to the E100H along with a function number, and the subdevice number 16.
The 8300 usually works with Cable 1877.
The Teac may be a pain. Most Teac units use the NEC1 protocol, but it seems like each model uses a different device and subdevice number. So there are two issues: 1) what device/subdevice is used by the AG780, and 2) does the remote have a setup number that matches those numbers and has function numbers that fit.
I haven't seen any info on the ag780, but try Audio 2098 and 1074. Also 1077, 2169. 3FG,
I did teach 41 of the E100H DVD recorder codes to the RCRP05B and the E100H is now working.
Unfortunately, no joy on trying those setup numbers for the Teac receiver. I tried the "Searching for your code" procedure on the Teac but again no joy. So the Teac AG780 does not appear to be in the built-in codes. The RCRP05B ran out of memory so I won't be able to teach it the Teac codes.
Thanks a lot for taking the time to help me out, Raptor
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| Post 7 made on Thursday October 29, 2009 at 07:43 |
raptor88 New Member |
Joined: Posts: | October 2009 12 |
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UPDATE: After receiving a RCA RCRP05B remote, I can verify two of my original questions for others who might be interesting in buying this remote.
>> 1. Some keys cannot receive learned codes. I don't mean macros but just single button learned codes.<<
The keys that cannot be used for learning are: - The 5 device selection keys. - The SETUP key. - The POWER key. (It would not accept learning when in the DVR device mode. I did not try to teach it in other device modes.) - The MACRO keys. (According to the user manual. I did not personally try to teach single codes to the two macro keys.) - The manual says the RECORD key cannot accept learning. But I was able to teach it a single code. So the manual appears to be wrong for the record key.
The manual does not mention that the POWER key cannot accept learning but it cannot. The manual says the RECORD key cannot accept learning but it can.
>> 2. Insufficient memory to learn all of the buttons needed.<<
The manual says that learning capacity is up to a total of 50 keys depending on the codes being learned. I was able to teach about 44 keys total and then ran out of memory. Forty four keys learning capacity is not nearly enough!
COMMENTS: The manufacturer should really increase the memory capacity for this remote. If it had more memory I would buy at least two more even if they cost up to $10 more per remote. But since the one I have ran out of memory before I was able to teach all the keys I needed, I am reluctant to buy anymore and will be reluctant to recommend it to serious learning remote users.
Other than insufficient memory for my particular needs, I think this is a great remote. I really like the layout of the keys. It's especially good for cable subscribers who have cable boxes or DVRs. As far as I'm concerned, this is the best layout of any universal remote I've ever used. (Though I've never used the expensive learning remotes that cost more than $50.00.)
A big thanks to 3FG for all his/her help. He/she is a real asset to this forum! Raptor
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| Post 8 made on Friday October 30, 2009 at 01:30 |
3FG Regular Member |
Joined: Posts: | August 2009 54 |
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Mea culpa. I made two mistakes in describing the learning memory. The actual memory available for learning is 2K, and the Panasonic protocol takes 48 bytes per learn. I'm sorry about that.
Do you really need all of the E100H keys? We don't know which format the Teac uses, but if it is like most other Teacs, it will consume 24 bytes per learn, so you probably could fit most keys of both components.
Raptor said "If it had more memory I would buy at least two more even if they cost up to $10 more per remote. "
That really changes the picture. The RCRP05B is made by Universal Electronics, and they also make the remotes used by many cable companies, high end Vizio TVs, etc. Inside the battery cover is a 6 pin connector which can be used to load in all sorts of upgrades. There is a website devoted to these so-called JP1 remotes www.hifi-remote.com/forums/. You can buy a USB cable for $35 shipped (or build one much cheaper). The software is free. If you manage more than one remote, the cost amortizes pretty quickly.
With a JP1 cable, you can load in an upgrade to run the E100H without learnng any keys. Such an upgrade frequently includes discrete functions which aren't available in the OEM remote. For many components, the protocols, device numbers and function numbers are known (you can see them in the File Section at the above link, and a lot of the codes are available here). So even if the dog ate the remote (as literally happened at my house!) you can still control the component. Of course, not every component is known, e.g. your Teac.
However, using the original remote, you can learn the keys, and then download the learns into the computer. The software decodes the learns into the protocol, device and function number, which is then loaded back into the remote in a much more compact format. For example, the space required for a learn of one key of the E100H is 48 bytes, but when decoded the space needed is 2 bytes. [Upgrade memory is in a different location than learn memory. Macro memory is also in separate space.]
As an example, with the cable, it is easy to manage macros, and change the delay time between steps in macros.
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| Post 9 made on Friday October 30, 2009 at 01:32 |
raptor88 New Member |
Joined: Posts: | October 2009 12 |
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UPDATE 02: I found the manual for our Radio Shack 6-IN-ONE learning remote and it has a device code section. Using it, I found that the RCA RCRP05B is VERY, VERY limited in which codes it can accept compared to the RS remote. Many less popular brands will not be accepted. On hindsight I'm fortunate that the units I need to control are popular brands like Sony, Panasonic and Scientific Atlanta which is why the RCRP05B will work for me 98%. (The missing 2% is because it ran out of learning memory.)
Now I know why some user comments that I read on the web said they were returning their RCRP05B since it would not accept the codes for the units they had. They must have had less popular brands that the RCRP05B does not have in it's pre-programmed memory.
One example is my Teac audio receiver which is a less popular brand. The RCRP05B does not have any built-in device codes for it but I found that the RS 6-IN-ONE remote does. So I'll swap and use the RCA remote in the dining room and the RS remote in the living room.
LATEST CONCLUSION: I will not recommend the RCA RCRP05B to any friend unless all they need to control are Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba and Scientific Atlanta. Also only if they don't need a lot of learning capability.
Sometimes a good layout isn't everything, Sky
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| Post 10 made on Friday October 30, 2009 at 02:00 |
raptor88 New Member |
Joined: Posts: | October 2009 12 |
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On October 30, 2009 at 01:30, 3FG said...
Mea culpa. I made two mistakes in describing the learning memory. The actual memory available for learning is 2K, and the Panasonic protocol takes 48 bytes per learn. I'm sorry about that. Do you really need all of the E100H keys? We don't know which format the Teac uses, but if it is like most other Teacs, it will consume 24 bytes per learn, so you probably could fit most keys of both components. Raptor said "If it had more memory I would buy at least two more even if they cost up to $10 more per remote. " That really changes the picture. The RCRP05B is made by Universal Electronics, and they also make the remotes used by many cable companies, high end Vizio TVs, etc. Inside the battery cover is a 6 pin connector which can be used to load in all sorts of upgrades. There is a website devoted to these so-called JP1 remotes www.hifi-remote.com/forums/. You can buy a USB cable for $35 shipped (or build one much cheaper). The software is free. If you manage more than one remote, the cost amortizes pretty quickly. With a JP1 cable, you can load in an upgrade to run the E100H without learnng any keys. Such an upgrade frequently includes discrete functions which aren't available in the OEM remote. For many components, the protocols, device numbers and function numbers are known (you can see them in the File Section at the above link, and a lot of the codes are available here). So even if the dog ate the remote (as literally happened at my house!) you can still control the component. Of course, not every component is known, e.g. your Teac. However, using the original remote, you can learn the keys, and then download the learns into the computer. The software decodes the learns into the protocol, device and function number, which is then loaded back into the remote in a much more compact format. For example, the space required for a learn of one key of the E100H is 48 bytes, but when decoded the space needed is 2 bytes. [Upgrade memory is in a different location than learn memory. Macro memory is also in separate space.] As an example, with the cable, it is easy to manage macros, and change the delay time between steps in macros. Hi 3FG,
I must have been typing my last post (UPDATE 02) while you were typing your last post.
That's very interesting regarding being able to load the E100H codes without using any learning keys. That would shift my personal viewpoint of the RCRP05B a lot. I like the layout enough that I might just do that if the missing E100H keys bother me later. For now, there's only a few less used keys that I'm missing so I can use the original E100H remote to initiate those functions if need be.
I swapped the RS 6-IN-ONE remote from the dining room with the RCRP05B remote that I was going to use in the living room. The Radio Shack remote can control the Teac AG-780 receiver (code 0463) so all is well in the living room.
I can control the E100H and Scientific Atlanta DVR which are in the living room from the dining room using a Powermid IR extender. I don't need to control the Teac Receiver from the dining room since the dining room just relies on the dining room TV set's sound. So the RCRP05B will "just" work for me in the dining room.
Thanks for the tip about being able to upgrade to the E100H without using any learning keys. That's really valuable information. If I get around to buying a JP1 cable and do the programming and it all works, I'll probably buy two more RCRP05B remotes.
Sky
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| Post 11 made on Friday October 30, 2009 at 04:16 |
3FG Regular Member |
Joined: Posts: | August 2009 54 |
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Thanks for the mention of the Teac setup code. Here's a couple of approaches to finding setup codes.
On the forum page of hifi-remote, near the top of the page, there is a heading for Lookup Tool. Using Device Search, and entering Audio 0463, you can see that it is NEC1 protocol, device 129, subdevice 115. 0463 is in 34 remotes, and the RCA isn't on the list. You can also check to see if some other setup code would work by using Protocol Search, and verify that the RCA has no NEC1 code with device 129. Of course with a cable you can put in a 129.115 upgrade. Actually you'd probably just use the AV G8500 upgrade that someone has posted in the File Section.
Using Brand Search, Scientific Atlanta would turn up 1877 among a lot of others. Or in the Files Section\Cable, the very first SA file listed is for the 8300 and includes "1877" in the description.
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| Post 12 made on Friday October 30, 2009 at 07:05 |
raptor88 New Member |
Joined: Posts: | October 2009 12 |
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On October 30, 2009 at 04:16, 3FG said...
Thanks for the mention of the Teac setup code. Here's a couple of approaches to finding setup codes.
On the forum page of hifi-remote, near the top of the page, there is a heading for Lookup Tool. Using Device Search, and entering Audio 0463, you can see that it is NEC1 protocol, device 129, subdevice 115. 0463 is in 34 remotes, and the RCA isn't on the list. You can also check to see if some other setup code would work by using Protocol Search, and verify that the RCA has no NEC1 code with device 129. Of course with a cable you can put in a 129.115 upgrade. Actually you'd probably just use the AV G8500 upgrade that someone has posted in the File Section.
Using Brand Search, Scientific Atlanta would turn up 1877 among a lot of others. Or in the Files Section\Cable, the very first SA file listed is for the 8300 and includes "1877" in the description. Hi 3FG,
You are a treasure of information. Thanks a lot for sharing!
Best regards, Raptor
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