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Extending the RF range, Spotty RF operation
This thread has 7 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Saturday March 1, 2003 at 20:44
XTCsound
Lurking Member
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March 2003
6
We extended the cable of the IRF-6 and setup a booster antenna, but still the operation of the remote is spotty. It works one time, but locks up another time. We have not tried boosting the signal, wanted to know if anyone has experience with that or has anyother solutions.
We are also using the RS-232 cable to control 3 componenets, and have difficulty with that as well.
With the Focus CS-2, some commands works and others do not, same thing goes for Denon.
Focus stated that the baud rate should be set to 57600 but still the problem persisted.
We also had defenate problems with the Sony SATT-60 TIVO/SAT unit. Channel Macros were output incomplete and we tried different delays and still the same problem. We unfortunately had to result to IR for the control of the Tivo b/c of the delayed response and control of the TIVO, if anyone has any experience with that as well, please let us know.
Post 2 made on Sunday March 2, 2003 at 05:14
Theater Builders
Long Time Member
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November 2002
43
Do a Search of this forum, where in I explain how to easily modify your IRF-6 for better reception. I also have a modification for the Remote, but I do not want to get RTI in to trouble with the FCC. So I am keeping that to my self.
Post 3 made on Monday March 3, 2003 at 11:28
Bryan Nelson
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3
Good News! I was at an expo and talked to RTI about the RF problems. This summer they are coming out with 2 new versions of the IRF-6. One is the standard one except with a BNC connector mounted to the casing which allows you to use your own cable instead of the rinky-dink one that is included. The other RF module allows them to be daisy-chained. So you could have several RF receivers in the house to extend the range and provide better coverage. They are also coming out with another remote that is like the T2 except without the LCD touchscreen.
Post 4 made on Saturday September 20, 2003 at 19:10
rob13572468
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the rti remote uses the linx 418-LC premade rf modules coupled to a linx splatch antenna (which is a planar antenna). the problem is that, as everyone knows, the reception is positively horrible. to fix this, there are a number of ways to improve the transmitter performance. first of all, there is a circuit inside the remote between the transmitter module and the antenna called a t-attenuater. the purpose of this circuit is to drop the output level to below fcc limits if/when a high gain antenna is used. you can take a small length of 50 ohm cable and connect the output directly to the splatch and this will improve the rf strength dramatically.

secondly, i personally think that the splatch antenna sucks, but it is nice in that it is hidden and works a little bit better than a trace or helical antenna, but if you dont mind putting a stub antenna on the front of the remote, you will get a 3-5 db gain right off the bat. this of course will involve drilling a hole in the remote just below the rf window and mounting the mast. you will also need to add a small ground plane behind the mast for the best results. try using a small piece of copper sheet in the bottom of the case and attaching it to ground.

thirdly, if you really want to boost the range, you can add on a linx broadband amp module. this is a little more involved in that you will need to bring 5v, gnd and the antenna leads off of the board and to the module and then the output to the antenna, but it will provide 20db of gain. the part is available thru digikey and is part number bba-519-a-nd and costs $15

finally, you can simply remove the linx modules from the t2 and irf-6 and replace them with better/higher quality modules including linx own 900 mhz es series. if the t2 is going to be used in a city environment, getting out of the crowded 400 mhz band is the single best improvement you can make.

keep in mind that of course any of the modifications will probably void your warranty with rti and i do not expect that they will be too pleased with having thier product fiddled with. but if you have had to deal with frustrated customers as i have, a voided warranty is nothing compared to the screaming, thrown remotes, and threats of violence over having spent 1000 bucks for something that will not work reliably.

also keep in mind that to do some of these things, you will need to have some electronics experience. if you do not, get someone to help you who does. at any rate, performing any of these mods (or all of them) will not cost alot, for 30 dollars will cover them all, which is a far cry from the hundred plus dollars i have heard of people charging.
Post 5 made on Sunday September 21, 2003 at 01:19
RTI Installer
Super Member
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3,320
First off, you are wrong about the Attenuator, you will notice on closer examination that the trace is straight through; the resistor there is rated @ only 0 ohms. The attenuator trace on the board is only there because they might have needed it to pass FCC regulations. Further the flaw with this circuit is in that the transmitter output leg was specified to be no greater than .25 of an inch from the splatch input leg, when in reality, it is about ¾ of an inch out of spec. Further the splatch antenna is wrong for this application.

Second, we tried the 900 MZ mod, which did not help a bit.

Third, Using the amplifier will probably get RTI in big trouble and eventually you thrown in jail by the FCC. (Guy crashes jumbo jet with his hot rod remote, news at 11:00)

Fourth, Do not modify your remote unless you are qualified to do so, there are a lot of things you can blow up in there, the latter model remotes are tricky to take apart since they now use glue between the boards and the display leads can be broken off if you are not carefull. If you break it, you are probably going to have to buy a new remote, since RTI is aware of the boot leg mod crowd already and will probably not want to have anything to do with you changing their product.


Fifth, I have been effectively modifying these remotes longer than anyone, wherefore, I could tell you how to fix your remote so it works 80% better within 30 to 40 feet of the IRF-6, but I promised the President of RTI that I would not do that. But I will tell you that the fix is a lot easier than all of that drill a hole in the remote, install a copper plate nonsense. The clue lies in the fact that the antenna and transmitter are not compatible for the application, The T2 is basically a fancy garage door opener, those of you who understand what I am talking about will be able to figure out the rest on there own.

Sixth, it is nice to see that RTI has adopted my IRF-6 modification as standard issue, RG-6 works quite well within 10 feet off a BNC bulkhead connector mounted in the chassis, but I have found as in my original statement on this issue that RG-8 works the best as it is better matted to the frequency concerned.

Seventh---To recap for those that are new to this. The RG 194 cable that comes as standard issue with IRF-6 is only good for about 1-2 inches in length at the frequency in question, so what we need to do is cut the cable down to less than 2 inches and solder it onto the BNC bulkhead connector we previously mounted to the side of the IRF-6 Chassis near the receiving chip end. It is important to get a good chassis ground with the bulkhead connector, so sand off some of the paint inside before you mount it. This mod will give you noticeable results, enjoy.

NOTE! For those of you who are not qualified, but are going to do this mod anyway, please remove the circuit board before you drill the hole in the chassis. use only non magnetic tools, further do not over tighten the screws as you might crack the circuit board.


Finally rob13572468 please do not encourage people do something they might regret, in the end. This site is visited by a great many people who are not professional installers or people who do not have a great amount of electronics experience, but will try anything out of frustration. Please understand that I am really bummed that I cannot fix these customers remotes for them via mail order, but doing so may put some of the remotes over FCC Limits, which for a licensed installer is possibly a punishable offence.

I would like to get one of the supped up remotes tested and if it is within limits, maybe I will do the mods Mail order after all.

:)
David the Theater Builder
Never Ignore the Obvious -- H. David Gray
Post 6 made on Monday September 22, 2003 at 15:23
rob13572468
Lurking Member
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couple things here; the antenna can be more than .25" from the transmitter as long as it is connected with a 50 ohm connection. this needs to be either using 50 ohm cable or a microtransmission line. at any rate, all of this is covered in the linx whitepaper (rdf24002).

while the irf6 mod works (what were they thinking with that cable?!!) it does not solve all problems with the t2/irf6 combo. specifically, the problem that most installers have with the set (and rti has alluded to this themselves) is that the transmitter is unable to transmit with enough power to pruduce a coherent signal over the noise floor, which happens because there are so many other devices operating in the exact same band with much higher gain. because of this, moving to another band *will* work (including 900 mhz) as long as the the same problem does not exist in the new band. ultimately, this becomes a problem to find unless you have the ability to take background readings or else you need to test empirically. the reason that i know this is only because i have access to a network analyzer for the design process.

As for the FCC, gaining up the remote even several db will not get you in trouble as long as you follow the rules... the fcc procedures on this topic are as a matter of fact, quite interesting: you can increase the power as long as there are no complaints (i.e. if the neighbor complains about his tv reception, you need to work with them to fix it) AND you are not producing them/modding them commercially...

This means that an installer can roll his own as long as he is responsible about it but your mail order mods are definately a no-no!

Once again, as i said before, this is definately not something that everyone should try; if you do not have any experience with electronics then this is something that should be left to someone who does, but in the hands of someone who knows a thing or two, it makes a world of difference, especially if you have a customer who just wants his remote to work as promised. The rti is a *great* remote for the money, and when it works, everyone who owns one loves it, but the fact of the matter is that the rf section is a terrible design, and needs to be addressed.

I noticed that alot of installers here have complained and noone was offering any suggestions. these forums are about the free exchange of ideas and information and this information can potentially help alot of people out there to understand why the remote will work just fine in one area but not in another (and in those areas, the irf6 mod will probably not help). at least in this case, they have some recourse and some possible fixes.

For anyone who decides to take the leap and try any of these mods, i would suggest taking an experimantal approach; try things in a temporary manner before settling on permanantely altering the remote. to be honest the biggest performance gain came from the easier mod; adding the stub antenna. while it is not the most asthetically pleasing, the performance gain was phenomenal...
Post 7 made on Monday September 22, 2003 at 15:28
rob13572468
Lurking Member
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September 2003
3
also, to be fair and to reiterate what david has said above, I did alot of the testing with these remotes because the customers that i had were not at all concerned with the warranty and could afford having a remote broken. if you are at all concerned with your warranty or breaking your remote, do not attempt these mods.
Post 8 made on Wednesday September 24, 2003 at 01:55
RTI Installer
Super Member
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3,320
The Amplifier will not work with the T2, because the voltage is wrong, I already looked into doing this. Further, we built a 900mz mod version of the T2 and IRF-6 with no improvement in performance. Further RTI got into trouble in the first place by following Linx’s recommendations. So I would advise common sense over being legalistic regarding their instructions, which were after all, crafted for the most part in a theoretical world and not in someone’s home environment. Further the output gain is up as far as it can legally go; the problem is as I have stated before, within the incompatibility of the transmitter and transmitting antenna its self. I am netting ranges of 80 feet in line of site tests with my current mod with no drop in performance using the stock transmitter. In some cases the remote will work through 3 stories but the reception of course is questionable at times, this can be corrected of course by daisy chaining IRF-6 modules together, {which they were originally designed to do} I am still working the bugs out on that part.


Enjoy


David
Never Ignore the Obvious -- H. David Gray


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