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Anyone use RTI in a system w/ VC's
This thread has 28 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Friday October 2, 2009 at 10:14
pesci
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i have a client w/ 14- 17 zones of distributed audio system, i didnt do it, just took it over and was done 5 or 6 yrs ago. there is 2 12 channel sonance amps w/ cd changer and tuner and muting vol control i believe aref rom elan. i would love to upgrade this and give him control but the previous geniouses didnt pull cat 5 to any volume controls, its 4w shield and this house is 20,000 sq ft abd "can not" be fished!! was going to give him a concerto but im very optimistic on the handhelds and their range since i have one and the range is not that good.

was wondering if any of you over the years have done a system like this and added maybe 2 T2+ and a rp1 for discrete room control. i know there is the new 2 way, but havent done it yet or been trained on it yet so i dont like using jobs as try it its new!! ive done alot of work over here and he still uses the old companies name every so often so i dont want to give him a chance to call the old guys....i want to make what hes got so much better.

sorry if this makes anyone mad, but going to post over in the CI lounge to see what others say and see if they can add to concerto talk. thanks in advance boys, much appreciated

Last edited by pesci on October 2, 2009 13:01.
Post 2 made on Friday October 2, 2009 at 14:58
ceied
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20k sq ft... id give them nicer than concerto.....

amx bought that company that makes whole house sound that uses speake wire to the keypads totally cant remember the name at this second...

id put in a good system and a bunch of rti remotes & keypads to give them a real multi room multi source system
Ed will be known as the Tiger Woods of the integration business, followed closely with the renaming of his company to "Hotties A/V". The tag line will be "We like big racks and tight holes"...
Post 3 made on Friday October 2, 2009 at 15:39
Glackowitz
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Matrix Audio and Nexus Audio

We just did a Nexus Audio and it does what it says, Display is kinda small and limited to what the KP can do but a decent system
There's no worse feeling than that millisecond you're sure you are going to die after leaning your chair back a little too far.
Post 4 made on Friday October 2, 2009 at 16:19
sirroundsound
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And Nexus Audio has good RS232, so controlling it from an RTI system is easy.
Post 5 made on Saturday October 3, 2009 at 00:14
RTI Installer
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The 4 conductor with sheild which is actualy 5 conductors will work fine for RTI RK2, RK3, and even RK4, you wont have any network but it will still work
Never Ignore the Obvious -- H. David Gray
Post 6 made on Saturday October 3, 2009 at 02:13
RTI Installer
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On October 3, 2009 at 00:14, RTI Installer said...
The 4 conductor with shield which is actually 5 conductors will work fine for RTI RK2, RK3, and even RK4, you wont have any network but it will still work

Let me expand on this
Pins 7 & 8 are ground just tie them together
Pins 6 & 3 are IR tie those together
Pins 5 & 4 are + 16 volts
Pin 2 is RS-485 +
Pin 1 is RS-485 -

This is 5 conductors you have all that you need not only for control function but also 2 way control via RS 485, this is true of all the touch panels.
all you need is an adapter that goes from the 4 Cond+ shield to RJ45 on the controller side the other side will be a CB 4's and they already have screw terminals
Never Ignore the Obvious -- H. David Gray
Post 7 made on Saturday October 3, 2009 at 05:54
TOOOLDAND TOOGRUMPY
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On October 3, 2009 at 02:13, RTI Installer said...
Let me expand on this
Pins 7 & 8 are ground just tie them together
Pins 6 & 3 are IR tie those together
Pins 5 & 4 are + 16 volts
Pin 2 is RS-485 +
Pin 1 is RS-485 -

This is 5 conductors you have all that you need not only for control function but also 2 way control via RS 485, this is true of all the touch panels.
all you need is an adapter that goes from the 4 Cond+ shield to RJ45 on the controller side the other side will be a CB 4's and they already have screw terminals

i might be missing the point, but which conductors do you then use to get the audio from the amplifier to the speakers?
Post 8 made on Saturday October 3, 2009 at 11:36
RTI Installer
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pesci said "i would love to upgrade this and give him control but the previous geniouses didnt pull cat 5 to any volume controls, its 4w shield"

I was assuming he was saying that 4w shield was the control cable pulled by the prior installation outfit and he was not talking about the speaker wiring itself, if i am mistaken he would then have to rely on a strictly wireless solution
Never Ignore the Obvious -- H. David Gray
OP | Post 9 made on Monday October 5, 2009 at 20:02
pesci
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On October 3, 2009 at 00:14, RTI Installer said...
The 4 conductor with sheild which is actualy 5 conductors will work fine for RTI RK2, RK3, and even RK4, you wont have any network but it will still work

so rti kps work on 5 conductors??? i was wondering if i could do that, i would love to use RK2's.

yes the speakers do drop to vc in most cases i think. they do have some a/b switches in 2 media rms where there audio sensing 2 spkrs for music
Post 10 made on Monday October 5, 2009 at 21:06
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On October 5, 2009 at 20:02, pesci said...
so rti kps work on 5 conductors??? i was wondering if i could do that, i would love to use RK2's.

yes the speakers do drop to vc in most cases i think. they do have some a/b switches in 2 media rms where there audio sensing 2 spkrs for music

Is the speaker wire separate form the 4 conductor with ground you are talking about?

Further the minimum you need for any RTI touch panel is 3 conductors + Neg and signal. however you dont get 2 way with only 3 conductors
Never Ignore the Obvious -- H. David Gray
OP | Post 11 made on Monday October 5, 2009 at 23:29
pesci
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On October 5, 2009 at 21:06, RTI Installer said...
Is the speaker wire separate form the 4 conductor with ground you are talking about?

Further the minimum you need for any RTI touch panel is 3 conductors + Neg and signal. however you dont get 2 way with only 3 conductors

what do you mean separate?? the speakers come down to the vc w i think 16-2 or 16-4, and there is a 16-4 w a shield coming from rack to vc on amp side of vc, i forget what the shield or drain is doing
OP | Post 12 made on Monday October 5, 2009 at 23:30
pesci
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now my other question is arent all rti kps rj45"s??? no way ill fit 16ga into and rj
Post 13 made on Tuesday October 6, 2009 at 02:07
RTI Installer
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On October 5, 2009 at 23:29, pesci said...
what do you mean separate?? the speakers come down to the vc w i think 16-2 or 16-4, and there is a 16-4 w a shield coming from rack to vc on amp side of vc, i forget what the shield or drain is doing

OK you have answered my question, I was trying to figure out if you had a quad speaker cable running from the rack to the volume along and a 4 conductor + ground, but that apparently is not the case you just have the one cable coming from the rack. That is a shame, O well even if you only had 2 conductors you could make it work by using a localized power supply for each touch panel and sending the signal back to the rack with the 2 conductor. Sorry for your loss.


However,  the new ST-7 touch-panel  is Zigby, Ill bet that would solve your problem, supposed to be available first quarter.
Never Ignore the Obvious -- H. David Gray
Post 14 made on Tuesday October 6, 2009 at 02:12
RTI Installer
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On October 5, 2009 at 23:30, pesci said...
now my other question is arent all rti kps rj45"s??? no way ill fit 16ga into and rj

I would just use an adapter


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Post 15 made on Tuesday October 6, 2009 at 09:53
estech
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This may be extreme, but if the amplifier powering the speakers has a common ground at the outputs, that could free up one conductor, paired with the shield, to give you a signal path for keypads. You would still need local power at each keypad.

Alternatively, I've used ATON volume controlled switches, centrally located, with handheld controllers, with very good results.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
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