anybody get shopped on rti from the internet, just lost 2 rti t2+.........the lady found them on line for $450!!! thought they were internet protected.. wtf

curious to see what you guys think. and how i work different labor programming charges back in to new quote for items not purchased from me? especially fro warranty issues.

RTI is protected, and is not supposed to be sold directly to consumers. It is not possible for a consumer to obtain a legal copy of the programming software. Personally I would refuse to program the remote for her. I always tell my customers that my price for a component is an installed price, and that the product may be found online for less. I explain that the additional product cost is profit which is used to subsidize my labor costs i.e. I don't charge for all the labor hours necessary to install the component since I am making additional profit on the equipment. I also provide full warranty support on both the equipment and my labor.

If you feel you must take the job, tell her the following:
1) You will charge full T&M for the install, which in all likelihood will negate any cost savings she realizes by purchasing the equipment on the internet.
2) Any service calls will be billed at full T&M - you won't provide any free warranty support.
3) In the case of RTI, there will be no manufacturer warranty support and she will have to pay the full cost of any repairs.

Usually this is enough to make the client reconsider their internet purchase.

If you can discover her Internet source for RTI, I'm sure that RTI would be very interested in hearing about that. RTI would most likely take steps to shut that source down if they are trying to sell new in the box RTI equipment.

same thing happened to me this week, on a small job, with a T2-C, RP6 and a RK3.
They bought them off ebay and the ebay seller supplied them with RTI's dealer password so they could get the software themselves.
We dropped the job, refused to be involved and refunded their deposit.

We also go screwed on a very large Crestron Job where the client bought 1/3 of the Crestron products right off our proposal from a "friend" he has .... turns out it was ebay. For that job we had to charge him a consulting fee, to continue, to recoup our losses.

I've seen ebay sellers in the last few months selling RTI and Crestron products as either brand New without the box or as unused demo models "only opened to take this pic" to get around the rules.

I believe it would help if RTI had a forum on their site where we could sell dealer to dealer.

Or maybe they need to individualize the passwords and we then would have to get them through our distributors.

I think that a lot of the folks who are buying RTI from unauthorized dealers and obtaining the software illegally fall into 2 categories:

1) Folks who are incapable of programming the remote, and are operating under the impression that RTI is "easy to program" like say a harmony. These folks may very well return to an authorized dealer for programming support, in which case you charge full programming costs.
2) DIY types who have some techno savvy and believe that CIs are charlatans. This folks are never going to be your customer anyway.

My advice is to accept the fact these folks exist, and deal with them accordingly.

I also think that it is our duty as RTI dealers to contact RTI and make them aware of illegal sellers. In the past they have pursued these folks. Yes I suppose that sellers who claim the remotes are "used" can get away with it, but if RTI could somehow catch them distributing the username and password to the RTI dealer site, they would have grounds to pursue them legally.

i agree w/ what both of you are saying. the site was audiophileliquidators.com, and the weird thing was when i looked for the rp1, i couldnt find it, so she is going to buy that thru me...yippy one sale anyway.

i thought i was fair, t2+ at $599, this is over a $150...

now my question to you...i already made a quote for 85/hr programming billed into the labor w/ my sale of remotes. how do i tell her i want more for labor for other products sold from somebody else due to possible problems that could occur, its only fair right????

she even found the tv w/ free mount online... which im used too, but im pissed about the remotes. should my new quote be for more an hour???

just looked at the site more, they have niles, marantz and urc

[Link: audiophileliquidator.net]

and for the lit... they copied exactly from rti website!!!!!!!!!!! w/ a link to dealer protected software... thank god something is protected

I am completely against sales on Ebay, and condemn the dissemination of software to a non-dealer, but with the new lines coming out your going to see a lot more T2+ and remotes that are first generation hitting the auction sites.

I would spec out a different remote than a T2+. Go for a T2-C or T-2CS if possible. These are in a somewhat higher price point and less readily available on Ebay.
Hell, I have a couple of T2+ sitting around brand new and unopened and they will probably remain that way for a long time or worse, never get sold.

RTI is well aware of this company and is trying to track down their product source. Please inform you customer that RTI will NOT! Cover any factory warrantee of any RTI product purchased from an online source. You can also tell her that as far as RTI knows which they don’t that the products could be stolen or bootleg merchandise

It is really up to all of use to help RTI track down bootleggers and software pirates, I regularly patrol the net looking for trouble you all should tack a little time now and then to do the same, forward any suspicious activity to Pete or Brett and they will do something about it


I have my self gotten several bootleggers booted off ebay, which is easy to do since RTI already had a program for this set up with ebay.

Many of these websites sites selling protected lines are shysters.

One common scam:
Some of them will advertise a product on the website, and once it is ordered, then they try to determine how they can obtain it (grey market or whatever). Even if they can get the product, it may take a while. In the meantime they charge the customer's credit card and have use of the money.

If they can't get the product, they then try the old bait and switch.

Another scam is advertising a product for a ridiculously low price on internet price comparison sites. The product advertised is a loss leader. Once the customer orders it, they get a phone call from a high pressure salesman selling accessories/extended warranties etc. If you don't buy the sales pitch for the additional items, the original item is mysteriously unavailable.

There was a whole thread over on the custom installers board about a group of websites, linked to the same company, which does this very thing.

You might try checking audiophileliquidator.net on the BBB website, if there are complaints against them you could forward the info to your client.

There are gobs of websites advertising protected lines for sale, but just because they are advertised does not mean a customer can actually order and receive the merchandise for the advertised price.

Charge $200 discovery fee for products not purchased from you and 25% more for programming the RTI remotes she got online. Oh and remind her she will have to contact the online company for service. Hopefully her RTI goes dead after a couple of weeks.

Exactly how Direct Buy works.

That was my thread as follows


[Link: www0.epinions.com]


Look at what ARCAM (high end audiophile gear company)has to say about them:

"One of the largest offenders is a ring of websites which appear to be separate businesses but all can be traced back to Uncle’s Stereo in New York. We have documented cases in which some of these sites have been caught selling used Arcam products as new, and selling Arcam products on which the serial numbers have been fraudulently modified.

Uncle’s Stereo websites include, but are not limited to: [Link: digitalcraze.com]


AbsoluteAudioVideo.com

AboutGizmos.com

AllHomeTheater.com

AllHomeTheater.net

Audio and Vision store on Shopping.com

AuthenticHomeTheater.com

CraftwoodCustom.com

ElegantAudioVideo.com

DependableAudioVideo.com

DigitalCraze.com

HomeTheaterByTheSea.com

NewYorkWholesaleAudioVideo.com

ReliableAudioVideo.com

Reliable Audio Video on Yahoo Shopping

PlazaAudio.com – currently not active

ReelAudioVideo.com – currently not active

SpeedAndSound.com – currently not active

TheWorldOfTheater.com – currently not active

UncleStereo.com – currently “under construction”


While a great deal of effort appears to have been put into these sites to make them appear to be different businesses, they all share some common link. That might be the same telephone number or the same address listed on the website. But in many cases we had to research the actual domain name registrations to find the connection."


These guys even go so far as to pad sites like epinions with false positive opinions to make themselves look legitimate

Some CIs immediately drop a client like this as though they will punish the client and make themselves feel better.

I don't believe in dropping a client unless you think that the job has just plain become unprofitable.

If you have too much business you can dump them. I'd keep working with them. Give them the cautions about no warranty, no free service calls if the remote locks up (do this professionally, not wave your finger in their face style) and so on.

If you are charging straight time for programming then just keep on that road. If you allowed 2 hours or 4 or whatever, then you might want to decide whether to go on straight hourly with the programming.

I'd keep the client and the business. Why do you spend all that time to get a client you hope to have for years to come (upgrades, referrals) and then dump him? Lick your wounds, think how you could have addressed such issues earlier on and avoided the pain, but keep on working.