Your Universal Remote Control Center
RemoteCentral.com
RTI Control Systems Forum - View Post
Previous section Next section Previous page Next page Up level
Up level
The following page was printed from RemoteCentral.com:

Login:
Pass:
 
 

Page 1 of 2
Topic:
RTI Accessories
This thread has 24 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Thursday March 15, 2001 at 00:33
Hacky
Historic Forum Post
My salesman has convinced me to go for the TT T2 with programming (about $1000 total). In addition he strongly suggests I buy the CM-232 RS Communication module and a Voltage Power Sensor and a Video Synch Power Sensor. This brings the price to $1800. $1000 is bad enough but $1800 seems insane.

So I am not interested in whether this price is fair (although opinions are welcome) but what in the world do these accessories do and why would they benefit me.

I have an Pioneer 510 HDTV, DTV satellite box, DVD, B&K AVR307, VCR. Thanks.
OP | Post 2 made on Thursday March 15, 2001 at 06:32
jcmitch
Historic Forum Post
The make and model of your vcr, sat receiver and dvd sre important in making that determination. Some sets offer individual power control "discrete commands", others would require sensors to automate. AFAIK, the CM-232 is not yet available (other than a handful of test units) and you will need an additional accessory, an IRF-6 to take advantage of these parts. As for the price, you're paying more than a do-it-yourself consumer shopping on the internet but the pricing's not unreasonable.

jcmitch
OP | Post 3 made on Thursday March 15, 2001 at 09:07
Tom
Historic Forum Post
While the RTI T2 may look costly at first blush, it delivers true value. It is an extremely powerful system with professional level software and can provide solid, unambiguous control over your video system. Having a solid remote control system will allow you to focus on the enjoyment of good video and audio, and not get frustrated over an erratic remote system. The T2 system is worth every penny. Listen to your installer and get it done right the first time--that is, use the power status sensing modules. You will not regret it! I went down the Pronto/Marantz path first--learned a great deal about IR and RF, but never had good control over my system.
OP | Post 4 made on Thursday March 15, 2001 at 09:34
Hacky
Historic Forum Post
I have a Pioneer 510 HDTV, B&K AVR307, Sony 9000ES DVD, Monster 5000 Surge Suppressor, a basic JVC S-VHS VCR, I am waiting for the new Sony Direct TV box.

I must admit I am still confused. I want a remote that makes it very simple for my wife and parents to operate the sytem. I would like to hit a DVD 'button' and have the TV, Receiver and DVD player turn on. I would rather have mostly hard buttons as opposed to LCD 'buttons'.

Please just a bit more detail to tell me the benefits of the RTI system. I have looked at the RC review and the RTI website and i really do not understand what makes this expensive package so much better than the others. Also, is it possible to do what you say if the 232-RS device is not available yet? Finally, I really like the idea of a joystick on the remote, will the up and coming Home Theater Master MX 500 be the one to beat?

Thanks.
OP | Post 5 made on Thursday March 15, 2001 at 11:51
Bill E
Historic Forum Post
Hacky,

I have yet to have any customer that plunked down the money for an RTI T2, regret it. In fact lots of my T2 customers already made the investment on a Pronto and are tired of them. I have just about every remote under the sun including the Crestron and my family loves the T2 the best. My wife even says it is hands down her favorite and it’s the only one I can get her to use. If you want to know why just download the Pronto, mx1000, and T2 Software and spend a couple of hours with each, I think you will understand very quickly what sets these apart. I think the decision to use something else would be more of an economic choice than a performance one. Not to put Pronto’s down (could get bomb threats for doing that) but in the ease of use and the power of the options the T2 has a whole lot to offer.

Bill
www.homeautomationnet.com
OP | Post 6 made on Thursday March 15, 2001 at 12:09
Anthony
Historic Forum Post
Hackey
Those are two very different remotes. I am not an RTI user (I am not willing to give up the big customizable display on the Pronto, plus it is way out of my price range). But I think I might be able to explain the advantages of the RTI system to you.
Since he is adding sensors and the rest, I will assume that the IRF-6 is in the package
1) Assuming he programs all the commands through RF, when you press a button on your remote it will send a signal to the IRF-6. Since this signal is RF it can pass through any thing (walls, people, closed doors), the probability that the IRF-6 will not receive that signal is much more faint then IR. The IRF-6 can then be directly (wired) connected to the rest of the equipment (using CM 232 RS, or stick on IR emitters). This means that if you press the play button there is almost no chance that your equipment will not receive it. And if you have a macro (like the DVD on button you described) the possibility (more annoying) that just one of the commands is not received.
2) Sensors (Voltage or video) as there name states senses the state of your equipment. they plug into the IRF-6 and they tell it what to do. Let's say you were watching TV and decide to watch a DVD, your system needs to be smart enough to know that it should not turn of the TV, (that it just needs to turn on the DVD). When you press the button on the remote it sends a code to the IRF-6 giving it the order "use the sensors to see if the appropriate equipment is on, if it is not then turn them on". Some equipment have this intelligence built in (it is known as a discrete code) but others do not
----- A) A voltage sensor is used to determine if the equipment is on or off
----- B) A video sensor is used to determine if your system is using the appropriate input
OP | Post 7 made on Thursday March 15, 2001 at 12:32
Tom
Historic Forum Post
I'm one of Bill E's (homeautomationnet.com) very satified customers and a former Pronto/Marantz user. A full RF with sensing RTI T2 system is powerful and worry-free and plenty of bang for the buck.
OP | Post 8 made on Thursday March 15, 2001 at 12:50
Anthony
Historic Forum Post
OK Bill I won't blow you up ;-).

But seriously I just wanted to add that I started writing my message before Bill added his (work interrupted me, my boss thinks that that is the reason he is paying me, I have no idea why ;-)), so my comment that I am a Pronto owner is in no way connected to his comment on Pronto's. In my opinion they are two completely different remotes, and there is enough room in the world for both of them (and each one is better then the other at what it does best).

Hackey:
I forgot to mention in my last post that there is no comparing the MX500 to the T2, it is like comparing apples and oranges.
OP | Post 9 made on Thursday March 15, 2001 at 21:44
Michael Silver
Historic Forum Post
Hacky,

I have tried a number of remotes. (I am somewhat of a remote fiend, starting 25 years ago when I designed and built my own remotes as a kid.) And I like the T2 the best, although it's not perfect. I would like tranport buttons on it, for one thing. Also, the RF is unreliable, which is a major drawback. I had a RC2000 with RF and it worked perfectly in the same room.

However, all in all, the T2 is a great remote. The software (also with some design flaws) is very good. I love that you can save configurations and try different things but are only 30 seconds away from any old configuration. Also it's great for exchanging files.

All of my equipment has either explicit or hidden discrete codes, so sensing devices (i.e. power or video signal) are not necessary for me. You may find the same. Sometimes the codes take a bit of searching.

The pricing you have seems rather high. Maybe I don't understand what all you're getting for $1800.

Michael

www.silvers.org
OP | Post 10 made on Thursday March 15, 2001 at 23:35
Hacky
Historic Forum Post
Thanks all. The price of $1800 includes the remote, installation, the IRF-6, the RS-232 module, two or three sensors and programming ($400). I will play with the software and get a feel for programming it myself. Apparently the programmer has done many of these and they are trying to convince me that it is not worth my time as I will not get the intricacies and details that he will.

Another question: My initial puzzlement over the modules was exactly that I thought my components had discreet codes that would allow specific on/off decision trees etc... My understanding now is that the sensing modules are even more powerful and foolproof, is this correct?

Finally, is the RF reliable or not.

Thanks again, hopefully you do not consider this to be pestering.
OP | Post 11 made on Friday March 16, 2001 at 12:28
Bill E
Historic Forum Post
Hacky,

If your installer is promising you RS232 modules, he is uninformed as they are not available, with no target in site. So I would question him about this, it is always best to deal with someone that is up front with you.

As for the sensors being more reliable, I would disagree, the sensors are another link in the chain that ad’s the possibility of programming errors and equipment failure. There is no way you are going to convince me that putting more parts into any system, that doesn’t need them, increases reliability. The discreet codes are always best when they are available. When they are not available, the modules work great but never use them if they are not required.

And finally on RF reliability, this is a tough one. The RF works absolutely great in about 1 in 10 homes. But in the ones it does not work in I have had a bear of a time getting them to work, and more than a couple of time just took them back. I think the RF is a powerful addition to T2, and I have had flawless performance from mine, but be aware it may take some work to get it dialed in (antenna tweaking), or it just may never work due to the RF environment it is being used in. I have never had a problem with RTI taking these few systems back.

Try the software it is fairly easy but a good installer that has done a lot of these can really enhance your enjoyment of the system.

Bill
www.homeautomationnet.com

OP | Post 12 made on Friday March 16, 2001 at 15:32
Anthony
Historic Forum Post
I don't know about the RF part of the equation, but I agree 100% on the discrete vs sensor comment.
OP | Post 13 made on Friday March 16, 2001 at 16:20
Rob
Historic Forum Post
Hacky,

I am not poisitive about the Pioneer HDTV but the only other device you list that can utilize RS232 is the B&K AVR307 (awesome receiver). Most of the benefit over IR (even if you could get the 232 module) for that device would be two way serial communication; that is not availible on the T2. Everything else you can accomplish through presets.

All other devices you listed have discrete codes for on/off and inputs so using the video and sync modules for that purpose would be redundant.

I have found a useful feature for the video sync sensor: Dish network HD reciever. The video sync sensor can be used for detecting whether the receiver is providing SD or HD. Logic can be written to keep the output toggled to the correct setting. (The RCA STC-100 has discrete HD/SD output codes, so no need here.)

Rob
OP | Post 14 made on Sunday March 18, 2001 at 11:56
Michael Silver
Historic Forum Post
Hacky,

You definitely want to program it yourself for three reasons:

First, because you should learn how to do it. You'll be tweaking your remote for months as you use it and probably forever as you'll no doubt change components.

Second, because programming is easy and you'll probably enjoy it. The application program to program the remote is well-designed and easy-to-use. Of course, it would be much better if they would listen to me :o) but still, it's pretty good, particularly as these things go.

Third, because you'll save $400, which can be spent on other components for your system or donated to a worthy charity.

There are plenty of people around who are happy to help with specific problems if you run into them, but I'm sure you'll find once you start, you'll have no problem programming it and will be glad you did so yourself.

Michael

www.silvers.org
OP | Post 15 made on Sunday March 18, 2001 at 16:06
Hansi
Historic Forum Post
I think your dealer is trying to sell you more than you need. Maybe he get a package deal from RTI with the remote, rf-6 and some sensors.

I know Bill have a special package with those items, and I bought the package as overseas shipping is expensive and/or take time so i made the decision to buy stuff that i dont need now but might need later.

Check the forums/file areas of remotecentral and try to find out exactly which units in your system need power/video sensors. Also ask your sales contact exactly why you need them. He should not offer them unless he KNOW which units in your system need them.

Regarding the programming...the whole point (as I see it) of a customizable remote is that you want to customize it to your own taste. Nobody else than you can manage that.

I finished about 60% of the programming in 1-2 evenings while waiting for the remote to be delivered. Then I spend one evening learning all the buttons that I could not find in any library, and then a few hours making makros and frames that work very well.

I showed my 5 year old daughter ONCE which keys to press to fire up the system in tv-viewing mode (Press main menu, then press the TV button for 0.3 seconds). This turns on the TV and the AV amplifier then selects the TV input. She has not had any problems since, which give me a chance to sleep late on saturdays :-)

If you would have had a custom installed home cinema setup from scratch with a lot of components, projector, screens etc then I would see the point of including the remote programming in the price of the final system.
But if you have installed your gear by yourself, you should be able to setup the remote for it too.

You should make some tests of how RF works for you too. I have not managed to make the RF stuff work anywhere near reliably yet.

Page 1 of 2


Jump to


Protected Feature Before you can reply to a message...
You must first register for a Remote Central user account - it's fast and free! Or, if you already have an account, please login now.

Please read the following: Unsolicited commercial advertisements are absolutely not permitted on this forum. Other private buy & sell messages should be posted to our Marketplace. For information on how to advertise your service or product click here. Remote Central reserves the right to remove or modify any post that is deemed inappropriate.

Hosting Services by ipHouse