Hello everybody!
I have a cheap Sony 525,which is,well,cheap. I want to improve my HT by replaicing it with a better receiver. I have read about the great qualities of the Denon line. However, what I'd like some clarification about is that the Sony is rated at 100W per channel, that is 500 watts in total. The Denon 1700 I've been looking at is rated at only 70W per channel. Somebody told me that Denon is better since Denon uses discrete channels and transistors for each channel. Since I do not have a lot of knowledge in this area could somebody explain how the Denon 70Wx5 can be better than the Sony 100Wx5. Of course the I know that the quality of the sound and construction is another matter.

Thank you

Power is rated in different ways -- and some manufacturers "overrate" their equipment, some provide "real-world ratings", and some even under state their wattage. What matters is how the receiver sounds. I can't compare the build of the two models since I haven't seen/heard them, however generally Sony's lower-end receivers aren't that good.

Daniel is correct...except I would say that Sony's low end stuff is total CRAP!!

The so called 100w output must be measured at 50% thd with a 1kHz tone. There is no way a low end Sony puts out a clean 100w.

Aside from this rant...

Power ratings are really not important. Two equal quality amplifiers providing 70 and 100 watts respectively will play at virtually the same volume level (assuming you use the same speakers)

In order to achieve just a 3db increase in SPL (barely noticeable) you would have to have approx TWICE the wattage.

If loud is what you are looking for, try changing your speakers. Look for speakers that have a higher efficiency rating. The more efficient the speaker, the louder it will play with any amp. Unfortunately, most great sounding speakers have efficiencys of < 90db. Try a pair of Cerwin-Vega's... some of them are rated at 100db+

Anyways...as for the receiver...buy for build quality, not power ratings and LPSI (lights per square inch)

Derek

N-vision is definitely correct... i mean... if Sony is pumping out 120wpc at $400 bucks... what does that say about a 100wpc Krell KAV-500 at $5000??? the Krell is a piece of crap?? definitely not... or better yet.. those great tube amps that put out 5wpc at $20,000! it's not how many watts.. but the quality of each individual one...
better build quality also shows pride and workmanship in a unit... how a manufacturer is willing to devote extra time and effort to ensure lasting durability, beautiful aesthetics, and better sound quality...

John

Damn! (Pardon my French!) I wish I would have found this site and read this thread before I went out and bought a Sony STR-DE 935. It is rated at 110 watts. CRAP? ARRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!! (Mind you it sounds a whole lot better than even the STR-DE 635 and lower). And it cost me $661 CDN. It's only a month and a half old, think they'll give me a decent price for a trade in on something better? I bought the whole system from them. I repeat - DAMN!!!

The DE935 is an OK receiver, though I generally recommend the DB or ES series if you're stuck on Sony.

Greg,
If you find the Sony unit good enough for ya.. then don't bother trying to trade up then.. Our company actually has a 2 month return policy. See what they can do for ya... review some other products if you feel uncomfortable about your receiver... good luck

John

I have a Sony STR-DE 435 and I think it sounds pretty good. It was only $200 so I wasn't expecting it to sound like a $1000 receiver but IMHO, it sounds right for a sub $500 reciever. I think the sound you get from a receiver depends alot on the speakers, source and accoustics of your room as well as personal taste. My friend has a Yamaha HT 5140 (tad bright), energy bookshelf speakers (on the mellow side) and a very accoustically bright room. He is in love with the sound of his system. I think the vocals on his system sound a little artificial because of the brightness of his reciever and the reverb created by the brightness of his room. The vocals sound too echoy to me, but he likes it. On my system which consists of the sony, CSW speakers and a more accoustically neutral room, vocals sound more forward, which I like. I think it gives a greater sense of presence. To him, however, he hears some mid-range strain on my system that I do not hear. I don't think his system sounds bad and he doesn't think mine does either. I think both systems are good but of course if we had the cash, we could do better.

IMHO, people who make blanket statements like "all sony stuff is crap" is full of crap. From what I can see through the vents of most low end recievers, the transformers and capacitors are of similar size and they all tend to have the same cheesy heat sinks. Reliability is another issue. My friend doesn't trust sony because he's had problems with them before. I use to hate sony because everything I bought from them would perform poorly or break. But so far, I've been pretty lucky when it comes to their home audio equipment (knock on wood). I'm sure I can find some NAD, Rotel or B&K owners who think ALL Japanese electronics are crap.

Now that I'm done with MY rant . . .

With regard to discrete channels, that's something inherent in DD. That's the whole point of DD. And as far as I know, my sony had discrete transistors, at least that's what it says on their web site. I think the whole "denon has discrete transistors" is just marketing double talk. It doesn't say anything. If you really want discrete, get five monoblock amps.

When it comes to volume, my friend's system sounds every bit as loud as mine if not louder even though his receiver is rated 60 watts per channel and mine is 100. Of course he has bookshelves and I have sats. Even though, I would not use watt ratings as a measure of how loud a receiver will go unless your comparing receivers from the same manufacturer. As I understand it, watt = current X volts. I don't really know what this means but I never see any of the other figures, current or volts. So some manufacturers toute high watts and others high current, but apparently there is a direct correlation between the two. So I don't know why 60 watts from one company sound just as loud as 100 watts from another, except that most of the time you are not driving your speaker with anything near 60 or 100 watts.

If you do want loud, do like n-vision says and get more efficient speakers and a big ass powered sub. With a powered sub and your speakers set as small, you won't need as many watts from your receiver.

I stand by my original post that LOW-END Sony is Crap.

I say this because it is horribly unreliable, sounds quite poor, and provides relatively poor value for the dollar. Their DE and ES lines are better, but not the best available for the money.

This doesn't only apply to Sony...most Mainstream manufacturers (Pioneer, Technics, etc) have fairly poor offerings at the low end.

The problem is...no one else competes at their low-end price levels. It is inherently difficult to build a quality piece of equipment that sells for $300 (CAD)

At the heart of the issue is the consumers lack of interest in quality. They would rather pay $300 for a receiver that says it can land the space shuttle than actually purchase a unit that is well built, but offers only features that are essential.

I am amazed that people today are only willing to invest $1000 on an entire home theatre set-up, and then complain that it breaks all the time, and sounds like crap! WHAT DO YOU EXPECT??

On a side note...

I am quite concerned about the number of posts asking where to get the best prices for A/V equipment.

Before purchasing any A/V gear, you should LISTEN TO IT, or HIRE A PROFESSIONAL INSTALLER. Price really should be secondary. Find a good local dealer who will provide you with good advice and service and make sure you support them. Purchase your gear from them. You will be glad you did when you have a problem...they will stand behind the product and have it fixed or replaced (w/in warranty of course). They often have upgrade programs for trading in your old gear. Most on-line dealers couldn't care less about you the moment you enter your CC number.

Well...Another Rant...

Derek

1) TOTAL CRAP is a very subjective term, so I don't generally use those opinions in my research for electronic equipment (or anything I buy for that matter). My Sony 935 may not have been the best, but it also cost half of what I have now.

2) Well, I did return my Sony STR-DE935 and bought the STR-DA333ES and am much, much happier. Not as bright. Fuller sound. Still kinda hot. Almost the same features as the 935, but even at 80 watts versus 110 for the 935, it sounds tighter and cleaner. (By the way, my local electronics dealer, although quite large, is great at service and freely admitted that the low-end Sony power ratings really should be multiplied by .6 to be anywhere near true ratings and still the THD is not that great. So, the 935 is really a 66 watt amp). Also, they refunded my entire purchase price and still gave me the 333ES at what I think was quite a fair discount.

Anyway, I am very pleased with my 333ES now and will stick with it!

Also, very little is actually TOTALLY CRAP. If it works for you and you paid a price that reflects its quality and value to you, then it is a worthwhile purchase.

Those are my musings..........

-Greg

Couldn't have said it better my self.