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SONY XDR F1HD AND RMT CF-1A please help
This thread has 22 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Saturday December 4, 2010 at 10:51
kokomal
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worked countless hrs over 1 year period trying to get the XDR F1HD to be controlled by the sonance c4630 system in my home. have been able to get the 4630 to control direct TV box and dennon dcm 340 disc player, however these were in the sonance ir library and was very easy to program into the 4630.

tried two stereo installers in town, one of which was RTI approved dealer (xtend technolgies) who apparrently captured the codes with IR capture device, however this did not work.. i paid for these codes.... been everywhere on the web without success.. tried to combine using makehex and info provided at remotecentral by ted timmons and manipulating the code without success... tried sony 12, 15 and 20 functions in makehex with sample below..

Device Code: 200 Function: 61
0000 0068 0000 0010 0060 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0315

called sonance tech support and sony without help.. tried buying IR capture device from sonance.... "no longer available"... tried buying RTI capture device, but used dealer above and paid for nonworking codes!! please help!!
Post 2 made on Saturday December 4, 2010 at 12:36
3FG
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Have you seen this thread?  It seems to imply that some XDR F1HD units respond to Sony20 26.19. 

Let's try to partition the problem into 1) Do you have the right IR signals, versus 2) there is a problem in programming the c4630.

Please post some of the learned signals that you paid for.  (Even better, post them all.)   We may be able to tell if they are marginal learns, and/or if they use Sony15 device 200 or Sony20 device 26.19.  Either way, it will probably help the user community to understand these Sony units.
OP | Post 3 made on Saturday December 4, 2010 at 20:43
kokomal
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3FG...thanks for the interest by the way....

Here are some of the codes provided by xtend technolgies in cleveland, ohio who said they "captured" these codes.. they are an RTI authorized dealer.. RTI also did the firmware for sonance and also made their capture device while it was on the market.. the "1" prior to the hex string was for number of repeats

Power40.1 KHz10000 0067 0000 0015 005F 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 0213

Preset -40.1 KHz10000 0067 0000 0015 005F 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 01E2

Preset +40.1 KHz10000 0067 0000 0015 005F 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 01E2

Scan40.1 KHz10000 0067 0000 0015 005F 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 01FA

Sleep40.1 KHz10000 0067 0000 0015 005F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 022C


Tune -40.1 KHz10000 0067 0000 0015 005F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 01FA

Tune +40.1 KHz10000 0067 0000 0015 005F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 002F 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 0017 01E2

I am going to try your recommendation using sony20 with device code 26.19. I will retest my IR eye to make sure it is functioning, but I did this last year and it was... Other pertinents.. the remote clearly functions and changes tuner settings... the eye is properly positioned on the left side of the unit when looking at it near the power button.. I am going to try and decipher the above codes to see what device code shakes out after converting to binary.. given the number of data strings, makehex sony20 would produce this number (46 groups of 4).

as I stated in my intitial email, I can contol a cd player denon and direct tv satellite with the 4630 from all keypads no problem.... the sony has been a pain in my u know what!! I was surprised that they were not very helpful when called... same for sonance...

the info provided by ted timmons using lirc suggest 12 bits, standard header of 2400/600, one = 1200/600 and zero = 600/600 with 8 post data bits and post data hex of 0xC8, min repeat of 2, gap of 45000.. I tried building a modified makehex code last night starting with sony 15, device 200, command 61 and was unsuccessful.. tried it with "preset +" of 0xBCB....


The control manager software for the sonance does show drawing of the ir signal if a hex code is inputted with some data... for sony15, device 200, code 61, It stated SIRC15, raw: 0x643D, cmd 0111101 (0x3D) addr:11001000 (0xC8)

the same code (makehex sony 15 code in my initial email0 also had correct time intervals of 1.2 ms and 602 micros with the 0018 and 0030 data strings... header was also correct at 2.41 ms with data string of 0060.... the end of the code-presumed post data- matched lirc data by timmons as 0xC8 with bin of 110010000... I could not get the front end of the code to correspond to 0xCBC provided by lirc info... I was not sure how to work in the gap of 45000 into the code... the very end of the code also had a 19.8 ms flat line trailer.. not sure the significance of this....
OP | Post 4 made on Saturday December 4, 2010 at 21:23
kokomal
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tried sony20 with device code 26.19 with codes of 21 for power and 61 preset+.. please note... there is no cmd 61 for device of 26.19 listed at [Link: hifi-remote.com].. I took 61 from device = 200 (presumed XDR-F1HD device code at least based on this site). neither of these did anything on the tuner....

I did check the ir eye I am using to control the tuner ... I disconnected it from the tuner and controlled my direct tv satellite box with the same eye....
Post 5 made on Sunday December 5, 2010 at 00:09
3FG
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The simple way to decode these Pronto Hex strings is to use IRTool.  Paste the hex strings into the box and click decode.  Make sure that you have deleted for example "Power40.1 KHz1" from the beginning of the string-- the first four digits should be 0000, which signifies a raw learned signal. 

The codes are Sony20, device 26.19.  It seems to me there is every reason to believe that the codes are learned correctly.  The Pronto Hex decodes cleanly, it is a device.subdevice which Sony is known to use in that class of equipment, and the function numbers do not conflict with known function numbers.

Power is function 21
Preset -40  62
Preset +40  61
Scan 113
Sleep 96
Tune - 116
Tune + 115

So I'm inclined to think that the problem is somewhere else.

But why are you paying somebody to learn the codes?  I can recommend two ways to do this yourself, and it is quick to do. 

1) Buy a IR widget from Tommy Tyler.  Costs $29 and will tell you what IR signal is being sent, and if it repeats, or has toggle bits, or your macros aren't really all firing, etc.  Software is free, and is actively supported, primarily by the JP1 community.

2) Buy a JP1 remote (e.g. RCA RCRP05B, $20 at BestBuy or Walgreens) and a JP1.3 interface cable, also $29 from Tommy Tyler.   This will learn IR signals via the learning feature of the remote, and the free program IR.exe (version 8.03) will convert the signal to Pronto.  This approach won't allow you to see the timing in macros (at least not easily), but it would allow you to test that a code works, without involving your main remote and eyes.
OP | Post 6 made on Sunday December 5, 2010 at 07:11
kokomal
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I discussed doing something like this a while ago with the store which sold me the 4630... (i.e. 1. using another remote which can learn the signal, then 2.."back out" the hex codes.... wasn't sure how to achieve #2... I will try what u have suggested.... this seems like the only logical way to do this and it should work!! if and when I get it going, I will post my working codes...

this link is from the previous post user johnsfine back on 12/28/09
There is an LIRC file for Sony RMT-CF1A at
[Link: lirc.sourceforge.net]

as it states "bits = 12, I am assuming it is incorrect.. this would suggest sony12 generates the correct code for remote RMT-CF1A, which is the remote that came with the tuner..

thanks for the help..
OP | Post 7 made on Sunday December 5, 2010 at 11:55
kokomal
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bought logitech harmony 300 remote from best buy.. supplied with usb cable.. was able to program the logitech functions of power, preset + and - for the sony XDR-F1HD unit (these are the only 3 I've done at this point). and it does work (i.e. conrols the sony)... these codes were already in the logitech ir library for download (ie. I did not have to teach the device)...

I was hoping I could back out the hex codes from the remote using the ir.exe program, so I could put them into the sonance program manager. i keep getting an error when using IR.exe about "unable to find delcom driver"... any advice?? I am checking www.hifi-remote.com website, seems like others have had this error... I also downloaded some drivers from the website which created a folder called "CDM20802 WHQL Certified"

I connected the logitech to my computer via the provided usb/min usb cable on the remote.. I can still buy the cable at tommy tyler if needed... I am planning on buying the IR widget at that site this week, but hoping to get this gong before then....

thanks...
Post 8 made on Sunday December 5, 2010 at 12:42
3FG
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Firstly, you should take whatever John Fine writes to the bank. He says the LIRC file is Sony20, device 26.19, and it is.
I don't know how to read LIRC files, but I can find the various devices and function codes in the file.

The format of Sony20 is can be expressed in IRP notation (invented by John Fine) is {40k,600}<1,-1|2,-1>(4,-1,F:7,D:5,S:8,^45m)+

So we can expect that the IR data is sent in the order 7 bits of function, 5 bits of device, and 8 bits of subdevice.

The LIRC files says post data is 0xC8. Of course it is tempting to think that means device 200, but in fact the bits are written in reverse order in LIRC compared to the Sony20 method. So
11001000 = 0xC8 = 200
00010011 = 0x13 = 19 (this is the subdevice)

Function Scan
1000111 01011 = 0x8EB
11010 1110001 = 0x1A and 0x71 = 26 and 113

There is a XDR-F1HD upgrade file for JP1 remotes which gives:
09
10
21
32
43
54
65
76
87
98
preset +61
preset -62
dimmer75
tune/select +115
tune/select -116
power21
sleep96
enter48
display73
band111
HD scan112
scan113
menu72

Taken all together, I suspect the posted info that the IR protocol is Sony15, device 200 is simply incorrect, and the presumed error is caused by reading 0xC8 frontwards instead of backwards.
Post 9 made on Sunday December 5, 2010 at 12:48
3FG
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Logitech Harmony remotes are not JP1 remotes, and are specifically designed to hide the detail of IR protocols. The USB connection can only be used via Internet to the Logitech website. I do not believe there is a way to extract any information about a IR signal from a Harmony.

So the software at hifi-remote.com won't work with a Harmony.

As per my last post, I think there is little question that you have the correct codes. Now you need to diagnose what is wrong in the rest of the system.
OP | Post 10 made on Sunday December 5, 2010 at 14:18
kokomal
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15
thanks for all the info... I did not mean to offend anyone.. did not know who jonh fine was.......

I am still a skeptic on the codes as I am already controlling 2 other devices sucessfully with the 4630..... I will take a closer look at the codes I dowloaded from sonance IR library for my other 2 working units and see if there is something there that I am not doing correct...

if that fails I will order the supplied cables u suggested from tommy tyler and will buy an additional remote that will allow me to hook up those cables.. will play with IR widget.. I was hoping to fix this today, saw the logitech remote with USB cable at best buy and thought I could finish the job...


will post again in about a week after I get the supplies.... (hopefully they have them in stock)..
Post 11 made on Monday December 6, 2010 at 07:24
Mr Mod
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Taken all together, I suspect the posted info that the IR protocol is Sony15, device 200 is simply incorrect, and the presumed error is caused by reading 0xC8 frontwards instead of backwards.

That was my mistake, i will email Rob to advise of the errors that i had made. I did get the right code on another post here sometime last year.
OP | Post 12 made on Monday December 6, 2010 at 09:30
kokomal
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I am curious if the length of the trailer (at the end of the signal) is significant??.. i.e (if it is 12 m.s vs 15 or 19 m.s.)??? The program manager software also has a check box for "sustain", adjacent to each code.. u can also specify number of repeats...

I have tried every code posted on this site. I have spent well over 30 hrs. on this... I broke down this sony code yesterday myself and recreated it from decimal to binary using cmd 61, device 26 subdevice 19..., started with 0000, 0067 or 68 for frequency, 0000, 0015, lead in code pair and trailer at the end... I really can't believe it.... I also changed to a separate auxillary input on the 4630 with separate input for the IR transmitter... I can barely believe it doesnt work.. and when I was able to get the logitech controller to control the tuner (code from logitech IR library), this gave me some hope... After I get the JP1 and IR cables, I am hoping for an answer... If not, will start looking for another tuner....

It took all of a few minutes to set up the dennon and the direct tv box with multiple macros including keypushes, pauses etc (however these codes were obtained from the sonance IR library)... the format of the codes looks the grossly the same, other than varying frequency and time intervals. I may send the remote/unit to sonance as well as a last ditch effort...

Again.. thanks all for the help...
OP | Post 13 made on Thursday December 9, 2010 at 20:02
kokomal
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I bought the RCA RCRP05B remote from best buy.. tommy tyler cables and widget should arrive in the next day or so.. Any advice on if I should have bought a different JP1 remote.. I saw one person complained and had difficulty with this remote and IR.exe on the JP1 forum site..
thanks
Post 14 made on Thursday December 9, 2010 at 20:21
3FG
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The RCRP05B works well with the Tommy Tyler cable. Make sure that the connector is attached with pin1 aligned correctly. Also be sure to disconnect the remote from the cable before trying to use the remote.
OP | Post 15 made on Saturday December 11, 2010 at 23:12
kokomal
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dead in the water again after countless more hrs.. have my widget and JP1.2/3 cable and RCA JP1.2 vs 3 remote... was able to teach remote commands to control the sony tuner.. unable to get widget to work or unable to get remote to connect to computer with cable... can't get the USB drivers to install.....I am running windows xp 32 bit version... laptop only 3 yrs old.. I am going to try and find a couple laptops of my friends and try to download software and drivers on their computer... this has been the most frustrating time consuming thing I have ever been involved with... And I normally can get most things working... x 42 years of my life!!
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