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Done in By Digital
This thread has 32 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Monday September 19, 2011 at 21:49
Angus Macphee
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Please advise if any options are available. I live in Barrie & have a 20 ft tower with a roter antenna.I used to receive 3/A channel, 16/CBC,& 7/Global.Purchased a digital box & now receive one stn CTV 2 formally A channel. We really need CBC however the channel 16 transmitter was turned off on Sept 1st. Tried unsucessfully for channel 20.In desperation I built the digital indoor antenna as per the OTA website link.According to the signal strength feature on the digital converter it pulled in 100% when pointed in the right direction.When unplugged I received 40% signal strength. However still only picking up 1 stn.
 
I think Danial mentioned one can pick up signals from a Rogers internet connection.I checked with a friend of mine who lives about 45 min north of here in Victoria Harbour.He used a simple cable coupler 1input & 2 outputs ( computer & TV.They receive 10-12 stns plus internet!Unfortunately I have Bell Internet.

Things appear to be Grim & if I cannot solve the problem I may have to go to the Dark Side & subscribe to cable. Please forward any suggestions.

Sincerely
 Angus 1 Station Macphee
Regards
Angus ?
( not sure what you mean by signature?)
Post 2 made on Monday September 19, 2011 at 22:32
hd fan
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425
As usual ,what type of antenna. Didnt CBC and Global switch over to digital in Barrie? . If so to which channels? Ch 20 CBC is acctually CBLT from CN Tower , I guess they use a different frecuency in Barrie. Same for Global, although they could have flash cut and used the same channel than before when it was analog.
Are all trnsmitters located in the same tower if not , how wide apart (which directions to aim). You can also email the local tv station engineer and they will likely tell you what to do.
OP | Post 3 made on Monday September 19, 2011 at 23:06
Angus Macphee
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Thanks HD
I did contact CBC & the person was not aware of TV over the air.They did steer me to their website & it stated channel 16 's transmitter is off the air Sept 1.The site shows that Barrie is barely inside channel 20's radius.

I will contact Global & advise you of the anntena make & model #.
Thanks for your assistance & if you have any suggestions it would be greatly appreciated. My wife is going to contact the Local MP as a tax payer in good standing they should honour their commitment to TV access for all Canadians.

I feel as though citizens with TV antenna's are treated very poorly.Another sad sign on how big business Cable Compannies rule the airwaves.Thank goodness to for this forum & the regular users of OTA TV for sticking to the greedy cable companies.

Angus
Regards
Angus ?
( not sure what you mean by signature?)
Post 4 made on Tuesday September 20, 2011 at 08:26
NFASTRO
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Listening to Angus, I can see we are spoiled in Toronto. If we live just north of the city core, we point our antenna south, get all of the stations broadcasting from CN Tower plus the stronger Buffalo stations. We are blessed with a dozen or more strong stations depending on our location and antenna.

In Barrie, I guess the strategy would be to pull in as many as possible from the CN Tower. I dont know how good the digital boxes are with regards to sensitivity but I would consult the chart in this forum and attempt to receive what you can from Toronto. If you have a good location such as south part of Barrie, try scanning or tuning for the stronger Toronto stns such as TVO on 19.1 and CBC on 20.1. If you cant receive them, then you are just too far away.

Its too bad since for Toronto viewers, Buffalo is just as far away as Barrie from Toronto yet we can receive them (primarily because they broadcast more power).

Another option if you wish to experiment is to ditch the old analogue tv and buy a new digital TV. Buy it where you can return if it does not work out. Make sure your antenna is pointed south to Toronto and scan for channels. Perhaps the digital TV tuner may be more sensitive and can pick up Toronto. Another advantage is you will at least get a high definition picture.

If it doesnt work, return it to the store and complain to your local MP and to CRTC. CRTC has a feedback email where you can complain about the digital switchover.
Post 5 made on Tuesday September 20, 2011 at 10:22
hd fan
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On September 19, 2011 at 23:06, Angus Macphee said...
I did contact CBC & the person was not aware of TV over the air.They did steer me to their website & it stated channel 16 's transmitter is off the air Sept 1.The site shows that Barrie is barely inside channel 20's radius.

Eh!!!!!!!, for less than that professionals get executed in Cuba! (this is just a phrase we cubans use, so please). Are you telling us that not only London but also Barrie was supposed to be without CBC signals (probably the french version as well) after the digital switch over?. I remember talking to a CBC tech once that was insisting that the CBC Toronto (I think is fair to assume the tech did not know that its call sign is CBLT) was channel 6!!!!! like it is in most cable systems probably instead of Ch 5 were it has always been OTA (well I think at the beggining it was on a different one over 50 years ago). As my professors back in the university in Cuba used to say those are conceptual mistakes and beleive me for those kind of ones lots of students failed and were expelled at an over 50% rate (around 100 started 1st year , less than 50 graduated 5 years later)

BTW funny thing is that probably most non tax payers are behind bars therefore they not only get CBC but also a full cable line up , something that lots of citizens can not even afford!. The local MP should listen to every local citizen no matter the quality of its tax paying standing , Thanks for reminding me that this is a money based society , something that I seem to forget quite often.

The whole society is greedy , not only the cable companies, this is a systemic problem , what you experience is just its consecuences, but then again the big paradox is , to fix it one would need a revolution but then I would be the first one to call Air Canada and get the hell out of here becasue I know how that always ends 50 years later lol.

End of the political "baba" , now let me see if I can research this more and help you further, I remember London made a big fuss but Barrie was not mention so I was on the assuption that Barrie would had also digital TV Transmitted locally. (funny that cubans in rural areas complain that the goverment has installed local transmitters for the 6 national channels in almost every town possible that obviously overwhelms the RF spectrum therefore no this cubans could not get the US channels from florida anymore , yet over here is the opposite, lol)
Post 6 made on Tuesday September 20, 2011 at 11:03
hd fan
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Wow! I consider myself extremely good finding and processing info and had a hard time find it on the tv stations website. After complaining about the CBC website (now there is no big link to digital tv , it is just a very tiny thing at the bottom) I could not even find the info for Global digital!. I guess they removed it all together!.

Well like NFASTRO said if you live in the North section of Barrie the thing those not hold well for you , because as per "the criminals" at the CBC, Barrie will be served by a transmitter located over 100 km away , CBLT CBC Toronto at the CN Tower that is. They even recognize that they can only serve viewers in the south section of Barrie (but I would assume they still drive the same cars and use the computers no?). Funny thing is , in a society that claims itself and tells the world it is a free one that enjoys wide spread communications and free press, them How come is it possible then even hardcore OTA fans like me that insanely talks a discuss about this on forums do not evebn heard of this subpar or reduced Barrie CBC coverage!. If the CBC is using CN Tower signals tö underserve (they even have the nerve to type serve on their website) then more likely Global is using its Toronto transmitter as well.

If back in Cuba we used to say that Havana is Cuba and the rest is just green grass (to reflect the fact that almost everything only works in havana ad the rest is underserved) I think the same can be applied here. It would not surprise me that cases like this (big cities that had analog coverage but now no digital) do exist a lot. Hey reporters!, there is hot news to be reported here, becasue this acctually classifies is information (new, wide interest). How come we do not see them being reported!.

Democracy and free press, my cuban ass!!!, lol. I am under the impression that I have become communist now after leaving in Canada for so long, lol!.

To summarize:

Contact Global since there is no info available on their website
Make sure you do not have a highrise bulding in the distance (CN tower path) or hills tall enough to obstruct or reduce CN tower signals
Get an outdoor UHF antenna like the 8 bay CM 4228 (CTV 2 is VHF ch 10 but it is so close and relatively powerfull that it will work) pointed to CN Tower as high to clear nearby obstructions (trees, buildings). It cost around 100 cad.
Use your converter box (they perform well typically) and scan again or manually add ch 20 (CBLT HD 5.1), no need for a new TV.

You mention you have a rotor antenna , assuming it is the rotor/amplifier/antenna altogether kind of system , then stay away from it since their amp is not that good and the antenna either (besides your local CTV 2 will likely overload it. See it as a investment and considering the cable TV savings get something high quality. No need for a rotor more likely BTW, and amps should be used if long cable runs or feeding several TV's , although being the CN tower signals (not the high powerd buffalo ones) you might have to add it later to improve signal and the good ones like Channel Master cost around 95-100 cad. Let your wife pay the taxes , she wil take care of it and a lot more I hope, lol.

There are lots of Knowleadgeable people here , some of them with industry experience or background, some even more usefull since they live in Barrie or closeby , so keep us updated , we will gladly help. It might take 200 cad or more , but beleive me you wil get your glorious HNIC in better digital format on saturday nights for free but for full HD experience then you need a new HD TV.

BTW I am interested to hear what the MP and local engineers has to say.
Post 7 made on Tuesday September 20, 2011 at 20:26
rjdto
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77
Just east of lake Simcoe we get channels 3-CTV2,7-CTV,12-lowres CBC,35-Global and 67-CHCH . The antenna is a 21" omnidirectional UFO style on a 40' mast. No need for a rotor. At nights a few more come in.
rjdto
OP | Post 8 made on Tuesday September 20, 2011 at 21:11
Angus Macphee
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Hd & Nfastro
Thanks for the information & encouragement.I was not aware of the London situation and will surely calling the Local MP Patrick Brown about the poor signal.

I do have a couple of questions.
1) Was the channel 16 transmitter local?

2) My TV is a 35" Sanyo about 7 yrs old.Our other TV is about 20 yrs & it use to pull in channel 5, not great but satisfactory.The Sanyo never could get 5.

3) Were was channel 5's transmitter located?

4) I think I still have information on antenna & rotar, not sure if it has a booster.

5) I will get my ducks in a row on what I,m thinking of purchasing & will advise.Need lots of help & advice, as I'm a long time antenna user with limited knowledge.

6) I live in a poor reception location, lots of trees & on the low end of a downward incline.My location is noth end of Barrie by St Vincent & Cundles.  

Thanks for your help
Angus
Regards
Angus ?
( not sure what you mean by signature?)
Post 9 made on Tuesday September 20, 2011 at 21:52
hd fan
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Yes it was local, there was/is no ch 16 in Toronto. I think this forum map still shows all old analog local transmitters in Barrie. In London , people movilized when they heard they were going to loose both CBC English and French (probably at the SMPTE meeting in Toronto at the beggining of the year) therefore there were concullor meetings and even the major got involved , as a result the CBC was granted an extension for 1 year to continue its analog service until they build a digital facility for London. Unfortunaelly in yopur case the TX is already shut down and probably they started to disassemble , who knows, but this is not Cuba , so make noise.

Both TV still can be used but you will need a converter box for each (around 50 cad at local electronic/satellite stores, even Future shop and The Source carries one model)

Ch 5 Tx was located at CN Tower as it is our local CBC, called CBLT, but being low VHF analog it travels way farther than UHF signals so its easier to get in Barrie than the new digital UHF ch 20 (remapped as 5.1 on digital tuners). Being in the north end of Barrie does not help either , and being is a low area with trees makes it worst. www.tvfool.org gives you good info on type of antenna needed and which channels to expect,you can even use a canadian postal code.

But in any case it is unacceptable that big cities like Barrie are almost left in the dark , almost because still it might work in some areas with the proper outdoor antenna.
Post 10 made on Tuesday September 20, 2011 at 22:59
el gran chico
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Angus, here is some info you might find helpful:

1) Both CBC and its French station shut down their analog transmitters in Barrie with no local digital replacement. Only signals from Toronto are available, channel 20 English (maps to 5.1 to replace old analog 5), channel 25 French - more on that in a bit. Both those transmitters were on the CKVR tower (not far from the old Molson brewery). What was odd about this is that CBC saved both the English and French analog transmitters in Kitchener almost the same distance from Toronto. Penetanguishene still has its French CBC channel.

2) CTV has digital channel 9 from Toronto and I believe analog 21 from Orillia. And of course you have CTV-2 from Barrie (Channel 10 mapped to 3.1)

3) Global is on digital channel 7 in Midland or digital 41 in Toronto

4) CHCH is on digital channel 23 near Honey Harbour (remaps to 67.1)

So you can already see the challenges - you have both VHF (channels in the 7 to 13 range) and UHF (channels in the 14 to 51 range), transmitters to the North of you and to the South of you.

Further complication things, there is the Oak Ridges Moraine in the way between Barrie and Toronto. That is a huge obstacle for OTAers. Barrie OTAers will need sufficient height to get a signal from Toronto. Doesn't sound good when you say "I live in a poor reception location, lots of trees & on the low end of a downward incline", although a 20 foot tower sure helps!

How old is your antenna? Is it both UHF and VHF? Does the rotor work well? What type of cable runs from your antenna to your tv? By booster, do you mean a pre-amp?

It's possible a few minor upgrades could help your situation a lot. I know several people in Barrie can get all the Toronto channels and even some of the strong Buffalo stations so don't give up hope.

By all means, contact your MP but don't hold your breath waiting for action. Very few of them even know what OTA is. I'm not an NDP supporter, but the one MP who does know this issue very well is Charlie Angus, the MP from Timmins. He's the opposition critic for Canadian Heritage which the CRTC falls under. You may want to contact him too.

If you want to name names at the CBC, the people who made the call to not save Barrie's analog transmitters are Bev Kirshenblatt and Steven Guiton. Google their names with "digital" and you'll find a number of things that will make OTAers cringe.

You say "I feel as though citizens with TV antenna's are treated very poorly.Another sad sign on how big business Cable Compannies rule the airwaves." You couldn't be more correct! :-(
Post 11 made on Wednesday September 21, 2011 at 01:38
Bruce H.Campbell
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On September 20, 2011 at 22:59, el gran chico said...
Angus,
You say "I feel as though citizens with TV antenna's are treated very poorly.Another sad sign on how big business Cable Companies rule the airwaves." You couldn't be more correct! :-(

Angus, you disabled your RC mail [its not a spam channel] If you have further trouble with over-the-air and still want to stick it to the pay-tv jackals PM me through the board. Since you have a web connection [& probably faster than mine] I'll link you to a malware-free download/stream site(s) to get your programming fix. I just won't publish their URL as they just had to transition to a new server. With the two and the latest VLC Media Player you can still enjoy 720p and 1080p/i entertainment.

I knew that when this transition to digital/ATSC started that border area users would be spoiled and those in the 'sticks' would be even more disadvantaged.
My cousins in the Lynchburg-Appomatox region of Virginia are back down to three stations again out at the farm when they used to be able to pick up eight. (hilly area)
Post 12 made on Wednesday September 21, 2011 at 11:54
hd fan
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El gran chico you are right, I had to stop reading more otherwise I would end up in the local midday news, lol. This is just 2 comments by Steven Guiton , CBC Chief Regulatory Officer.

**********************
But Guiton said that, while the CBC is facing some financial restrictions for the transition, that isn’t the only issue.

“The other issue is recognizing that over-the-air, as a television technology, isn’t what it used to be. It’s no longer the most important way that Canadians get their service,” he said.
**********************
And I say:
Mr Guiton , you are right , it is not what it used to be , it is way better now! and more important even more needed now during this tough economic times.

Another example from Mr DTH BDU I mean Mr Guiton:

************************
“Even if we had the finances, we would be hard-pressed to spend so much money on one single technology, a technology that, to be honest, is on the decline, when we have to make investments in all these other technologies,” Guiton said by phone.

“We’re definitely not asking for government funding, and if new funding were to come along … I’m not sure we’d be using it for over-the-air.”
*************************

Where are the elections to elect the people running the CBC I wonder?. Have they acctually forgotten that the CBC and RDS are first and foremost an OTA station and therefore were issued a license to use Canadian owned RF spectrum?. Have they forgotten they have profitted for over 60 years from the use of this spectrum? When did these people forgot that online, BDU's and whatever else gets invented , although welcomed, are acctually a consecuence of them being an OTA station first!. They should then give up on their OTA license and then apply for a cable premium channel or specialty channel then!

Like I said I had to stop reading the full article available here at [Link: dudewhereismytv.wordpress.com]

See if you are canadian enough to finish reading it without vomiting!. I am certainly not!.

But at the end of the day , we are the guilty ones , not them the regulators and engineers. We are the ones who choose to watch a lower quality HD HNIC every saturday via our cable or sat pay tv provider (and even in some cases show it off to our neighborgs) rather than at least for 1 single game give a call to your local CBC and ask them for an explanation as to why your family or friends who live in Barrie or Moncton or London or any oher of the probably hundreds of comunities have no access to the national hockey game anymore. No we do not do that , why would we, I guess that would be un-Canadian.
Post 13 made on Wednesday September 21, 2011 at 15:58
Larry Watching TV
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If I am not mistaken, Shaw Direct did have a promotion for free systems and programming for limited areas that lost their antenna signals. I can not find that page anymore. Try a call to Shaw Direct to see if it applies to you.
Post 14 made on Wednesday September 21, 2011 at 17:58
hd fan
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Larry for a minute I thought that I was hallucinating, lol, I am glad that I am not, lol. This is what they say on their DTV link (to add "whatever" to insult the OTA stations webs have removed or have only tiny DTV links but sat providers like Shaw still make sure to have DTV transition webpage!, lol). As per Shaw:

In this case, if you wish to continue viewing your local programming, you will need to do the following:

First, confirm whether your TV has a digital tuner. Many newer TVs already have them built in. Look for the term "digital tuner," "ATSC tuner" or "integrated tuner" on your television or consult your owner's manual. If your TV does have a digital tuner, follow the steps in your manual to set it so that you receive digital signals.

If your TV does not have a digital tuner, you have the following options:

•Subscribe to a cable or satellite television provider like Shaw Direct. Find out more.
•Purchase a digital-to-analog converter box (available at many major electronic stores) and confirm you have a suitable antenna.
•Purchase a TV with a built-in digital tuner and ensure you have a suitable antenna.
OP | Post 15 made on Wednesday September 21, 2011 at 21:48
Angus Macphee
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Thanks for the information as I seem to be learning more each evenning.
Keep it comming. I may go for Bruce's solution until I get the antenna sorted out.

Angus
Regards
Angus ?
( not sure what you mean by signature?)
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