100 feet of rg6 under 10 dollars college and spadina- tech direct . They have a store in miss.

it worked somewhat but not a great improvement. I think it's just the fact that it's too darn long no matter what.

Everything's pretty solid regardless. I can say i'm getting every station at 70-80% now with exceptions.

WGRZ now drifts at 28-50%. It's varies greatly and goes nuts half the time which is disappointing considering it used to be one of my most reliable stations. Guessing it's extremely directional. I moved antenna slightly east to get Toronto better.

I saw faint blips of CIII, but for some reason it's on channel 65-2?!?!
CITY a little more solid at 40%.
SUNTV going in and out, but I can see PSIP now. (28-33%)
FOX and CITS better around 40%. No dropouts.
ION and WNYB on and off randomly. Seems to be tropo-only. No biggie.

Overall I'm satisfied with my reception except WGRZ, i wish it was more stable. I don't want to move my TV downstairs although with no doubt that would help tremendously.

Thanks for the help everyone, I think i'm mostly good now. :) (although some help with WGRZ might be nice!)

I take it your entire cable run, from antenna to TV, now consists of RG-6?

If you have 20-25 feet of slack in your antenna run it should be removed. Every 20-25 feet of RG-6 equals about 1db of loss at UHF frequencies. Invest in a good crimp tool so you can make custom length cables. The shortest run from your antenna to TV is always the best way to go..

If all else fails, it is probably time to invest in a quality antenna preamp, especially if channel 2 reception does not improve after the leaves fall off the trees.. . Good luck!

PS: one other option... try a CM4228 (8-bay dipole) in place of your 4221/DB-4. The 4228 is going to give you an additional 3dB of gain and perhaps stop channel 2 from fading in and out on you.. .

PPS: Did you try removing the plastic caps from the dipoles attach points on the 4221? Doing that will add at least 1dB of gain at lower UHF frequencies!

I don't have a ChannelMaster antenna remember? ;P

I have a lookalike I think. Eaglestar 6305-2 (really just 2 6305 4bays marketed as 8bay). I only use one of the 4bays now. The other one is still mounted beside it but virtually useless.

[Link: eaglestarpro.com]

I don't think there are any plastic caps on the dipoles. Could you further illustrate what you mean, perhaps a picture?

I could try to gang the two 4bays again using the splitter but I recall that was problematic, the phillips splitter (see first post of thread) actually destroyed quite a bit of reception, even with one of the 4bays disconnected. I removed the entire thing.

I'll check out the option of cable length and preamp first! I'm not an expert so I have no clue how to trim the cable.

Sorry.. . must be that grey hair tickling my brain.. . :-)

I found out the old attic antenna has some sort of radioshack preamp on it. That's what my dad told me.

I know preamp MIGHT help with WGRZ. Will it kill the weaker stations? Still no luck pullingin CIII-DT or CKXT though from time to time PSIP shows up.

It's there, just slightly below the threshold.

WGRZ is holding on stable, though at threshold (33-35%) meaning it's behaviour is very unpredictable.

So to recap the only mess I need to fix now are 3 channels.
WGRZ (33-35%) Desired 50%
CIII (25%)
CKXT (25%)

Everything else is pretty rock solid now, ranging from 50%-80%

Will the preamp help? Where do I put it because there's no way I can reach the antenna.

Short answer, I have my AP4700 (18dB gain) UHF preamp in the basement and about 80ft of LMR400-75 (good RG11) going to the antenna. The only thing I can't see is Qubo. This was also the case at my old residence on the other side of town. The only thing I can think of is I'm just in a null. I get all the Buffalo south channels 99% of the time, day and night.

I think I know what you're saying about adding a preamp and losing some stations. That's the problem I had at my old residence. I needed the preamp to bag the weaker US stations, but when I installed it at the antenna it became overloaded by the closer Canadian stations. The net result was fewer channels! My solution was to install the preamplifier in the house and put a 7dB attenuator between the antenna and the preamp. I know it sounds goofy to attenuate a signal going into the preamp but it was the magic bullet for my system.

I had to switch UHF baluns when I moved in August because my low-loss one was literally falling to bits. I used a lower cost (and higher loss) balun and was able to delete the attenuator before the preamp. Still no Qubo though!

I'll try that.

So preamps? I can put them anywhere along the cable run right? (I have my doubts because pre- is before, and I'm assuming that means right after the balun).

I can't reach the balun on my antenna, it's too high. Remember the tower isn't rooftop. Although antenna is higher than roof, the tower is on the ground and thus impossible to reach.

Aside from that today I've finally managed to pull in CIII-41 weakly. Rather it drifted into 33% territory and has stayed that way. CITY weakened a bit to 33, but still there. WGRZ for some reason is back near-normal (straying between 40-60%). I cannot explain this behaviour. Though it surprises me my reception is holding out rather well and has not changed despite the crappy weather.

I don't think my CDN stations are strong enough to be overloaded. No signal of mine reaches over 80% actually, and I think that's as high as they go.

Do you think if I stick the preamp in front of my converter box it will work as well? If not I think I'm gonna just give up and wait until 2011 where the weak CDN stations will increase power. :P (And asides from WGRZ which appears to be problematic for everyone this time of year, i'm getting Buffalo rocksolid.)

WGRZ 2-1, 2-2, 2-3: 28-40 (50-60***) [*] (this one is just wild)
WIVB 4-1: 70-75
CBLT 5-1: 70-75
WKBW 7-1: 80-85
CFTO 9-1: 70-75
CHCH 11-1: 60-65
WNED 17-1, 17-2, 17-3: 75-80
WNLO 23-1: 75-80
CBLFT 25-1: 65-70
WNYB 26-1, 26-2: 25-40 [X] (don't care, but oddly this one pops in and out regularly, not a tropo thing)
WUTV 29-1: 33-50
CITS 36-1: 33-50
CIII 41-1: 25-33 [*][X] (only got this one today, don't expect it tolast)
CJMT 44-1 (69): 75-80
WNYO 49-1, 49-2: 75-85
WPXJ 51-1, 51-2, 51-3, 51-4: 25-35 [X] (don't really care, seems to be weak normally, tropo strong)
CITY 57-1: 33-40
CFMT 64-1: 45-60
CKXT: 66-1: 25 [*][X]

EagleStar (1 4bay active only) pointed slightly east of Buffalo.

Considering it's colder/stormy weather i'm impressed, but I was just still wondering if that preamp idea will actually work.

 I live in mississauga too.  using 2 of 4-bay with amplifier, point to different direction.  I can receive stably all 18 hd channels:

2,4,5,7,9,11,17,23,25,26,29,36,41,44,49,57,64,66


not stable: 51(-1-2-3-4), 70% time in summer

occasionally: 21, 54 

Interesting. 21 is WXXI rochester right? I got that on a tropo night a few weeks back. What's 54?

Yeah so can anyone help me with those stubborn channels? I can't understand why I can get difficult South Buffalo channels like WIVB and WKBW, and I can't even pick up Global or CKXT, and WRGZ is popping in and out randomly.

Will a preamp help? I can't place the preamp after the antenna it's too high and I can't reach the baluns.

Will a preamp down the RG6 be still helpful? or useless?

yes, 21 is from rochester. 54 is from Erie, only appeared once.   a preamp is much

helpful, if the cable is longer than 10 metres.  Globe, Sun TV are week transimitter. 

okay, but i can put the preamp anywhere along the cable right?

it's because i can't put the preamp immediately after my antenna. I can probably put it like 25-30 feet down the cable.

...or will that not work because I hear some say preamps only work after the antenna?

(and yes my cable is longer than 10 meters! the total run from antenna to tuner is probably around 130-140 feet unamplified RG6. I've seen people further than me get better reception :P)

just how powerful of a preamp/amp would I need, and what brand do you recommend for my situation?

I can recommend the Winegard unit I have. They have higher gain models available, like the AP4800. These are UHF only but they do pass VHF (with some mild attenuation). I hear good things about the Channelmaster 7777 too.

I bought the Winegard because an acquaintance whom used to install many TV antennas in Northern Ontario recommended it. It was sound advice. It doesn't have to go right at the antenna. It'll work best there to be sure, but like I mentioned mine is in the basement and definitely improves things.

What is the unit you have? How will I ensure I won't overload WKBW, WIVB, and WNYO? These are the 3 channels I'm concerned might overload if I install a strong preamp, they're sitting at about 80-85%.

I don't think I need insane gain values. I just need to prop up WGRZ, CITY, and WUTV (all three hover between 28-35%) during the winter (summer and tropo days like today it's as rock solid as other stations), and bring CIII and CKXT (25% each), which are almost recievable (need 33%) as I get blips of PSIP data on occasion.

Truth be told my AP4700 has a little too much gain, and that's the lower-gain version of this series. That said, it works fine 99% of the time. When the Canadian stations go digital I don't anticipate any de-sense issues any more.