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Topic:
Unreliable HDTV reception in Southwest Mississauga?
This thread has 56 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30.
Post 16 made on Friday September 11, 2009 at 20:51
rjdto
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Aiming two antennas in different directions is a bad idea with analog signals but a good idea with digital signals. I use such a setup and it works nicely. Signal combiners and amps block weak signals-hard wire the two leads. I have two 30 foot leads hard wired to the single lead going to the HD tv. 100 feet+ and no amp gives me all Toronto,Buffalo,usually Hamilton 11 and sometimes Rochester.
rjdto
Post 17 made on Friday September 11, 2009 at 20:54
rjdto
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Aiming two antennas in different directions is a bad idea with analog signals but a good idea with digital signals. I use such a setup and it works nicely. Signal combiners and amps block weak signals-hard wire the two leads. I have two 30 foot leads hard wired to the single lead going to the HD tv. 100 feet+ RG6 and no amp gives me all Toronto,Buffalo,usually Hamilton 11 and sometimes Rochester.
rjdto
OP | Post 18 made on Friday September 11, 2009 at 21:48
little-infinity
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What's your setup? How high are you above ground and do you have alot of buildings around you?


What do you mean by hard-wiring? I'm not very keen on all these technical terms. So that Phillips combiner will work fine with your suggestion? Or is there another way to wire the two coaxes together? I think the 2 short cables going into the Phillips are RG6. Not sure about the long cable going into my house. It's actually 2 different cables joining together. I don't know how to replace the one going into my house (the pink one in the picture of the combiner). It's sealed with concrete :/

Today all Buffalo dropped out. Hard. WIVB came in very weak at 33%, with only WNLO suriving with fairly decent reception. CHCH also faded in/out at 30%. I'm guessing it's because of the clouds/weather.

And again is stacking the antennas better than side-by-side? (I think I'm gonna have to do that anyway if I plan on aiming the 4 bays in opposite directions...)

Thanks!
Post 19 made on Friday September 11, 2009 at 22:59
BillFromGI
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On September 10, 2009 at 20:19, little-infinity said...
Thanks for the advice! Before I head out and set this up though can someone answer two lingering questions?

1. Is the radioshack ministate antenna any good? If so how would I fix the broken coaxial cable? I did some digging and it looks like a multi-directional antenna. Any range figures?

Range wise: I saw ALOT of those "multi-directional" disk antannas in Wainfleet Ontario while on vacation. I guess the distance from there to Buffalo and Toronto is close enough for those antennas to work & pick up both areas. Not sure how you would go about fixing one though..

The weather is still nice so "experiment". Put the "disk" up for a few days, then put something else up for a few days. That's the only way you know what is best for you in your area. Best of all, you have a tower and the antennas already. What not to do; do not combine them! Good luck and let us know how you do.. . Bill
OP | Post 20 made on Friday September 11, 2009 at 23:21
little-infinity
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so don't combine the eaglestar with the ministate, but combining the 2 eaglestars in different directions is okay? =P

And thank you I will let you guys know the results! I should google this stuff more often :P
Post 21 made on Saturday September 12, 2009 at 01:16
rocket65
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little-infinity your radioshack mini state is manufactured by a company called antennacraft .. it is rated for a range of 45 miles or less...if curious you may access all specs through website antennacraft.net
Michael Robert Bennett
Post 22 made on Saturday September 12, 2009 at 13:01
BillFromGI
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On September 11, 2009 at 23:21, little-infinity said...
so don't combine the eaglestar with the ministate, but combining the 2 eaglestars in different directions is okay? =P

Yes. Just make sure you use exact same length RG-6 from both eaglestar antennas to the splitter/combiner.

And thank you I will let you guys know the results! I should google this stuff more often :P

Have fun.. . :-)
OP | Post 23 made on Saturday September 12, 2009 at 19:18
little-infinity
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Hey guys! It's going good so far! I only have one 4-bay right there at the moment.

After strugging for 6 hours to get the entire tower up (WITH breaks of course!) we managed to get it up.

However I didn't fully fasten the antenna just yet so it's not pointed in the right direction.

I'm getting WNED at 50%!
WIVB at 45%!
CHCH at 40%!
WNLO at 60%!

Even WKBW came in at around 33% (faded quick though) Every other channel in Buffalo and Toronto was registering a signal around 20-25%.

All this and the antenna is pointed toward Barrie...lol. Also found it neat that I managed to grab a watchable analog of CKVR. The issue is now to climb 25 feet and actually rotate the antenna. I'd just want to know what I'm going to get by rotating it towards the south again.

Interesting reception to say the least.
OP | Post 24 made on Monday September 14, 2009 at 15:33
little-infinity
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Okay, reception report time!

WGRZ 2-1, 2-2, 2-3 33-40%
WIVB 4-1 60-75%
CBLT 5-1 60%
WKBW 7-1 80-85% (didn't expect that!)
CFTO 9-1 35-40%
CHCH 11-1 50-60%
WNED 17-1, 17-2, 17-3 70-75%
WNLO 23-1 75-80%
WNYO 49-1, 49-2 70%

Not getting.
CBLFT 25-1 25%
WNYB 26-1, 26-2 25%
WUTV 29-1, 29-2 25-30%
CITS 36-1 25%
CIII 41-1 25%
CJMT 44-1 (69) 25-30% edit:now getting at 60-65%
WPXJ 51-1, 51-2, 51-3, 51-4 0%
CITY 57-1 25%
CFMT 64-1 (47) 20%
CKXT 66-1 20%

To say the least, I'm pleased and disappointed at the same time. What I DO get is alot more reliable than before, and so far I've experienced no dropouts, and/or signal level changes on any of these stations. Plus I'm getting all the channels I got before alongside with some new Canadian channels!

WNED and WKBW are no longer an issue. They are now rock-solid as ever. WGRZ is a little in the middle, lower than I expected, a little lower level than before and occasionally blocks out. No dropouts though. Most of the other US stations have improved their signal strengths and are generally so much more reliable. At least for now. A good sign was this morning before school it was dark and overcast and all these stations were still signed on with only marginal signal loss. CFTO is a little too low for my liking but has managed to stay at that level and not drop out.

However, I'm still disappointed at WUTV's reception. Been a little better. I know the southern direction of the antenna, but I've read reports that people north of me in Derry Road have been getting this reliably. Even a signal level of 40% is satisfying, but so far. either nothing or unwatchable blocks. Got this reliably for about a half-hour yesterday. Usually strays just in the 28-33% ground. Enough to display some picture, not enough for it to not be blocky and unwatchable.

And of course a good half of the Canadian networks are still missing. Most notably are OMNI, Radio-Canada, CITY, and SUN TV. ION is also still missing. Any tips on getting these? They are registering, but are too weak.

Right now I have a four-bay attached. About 25 feet high, same cables. I don't have a picture but it's about 1.5X the height of my prevois antenna. Pointed probably towards Hamburg NY. Unfortunately I couldn't manage the antenna ganging trick where I pointed the 2 4bays. It's just too high. I think at this stage a pre-amp might kill off the weaker stations rather than help me as most of the other channels are good. Should I just aim a little higher (say another foot or two?) or should I go for a pre-amp? It's rather difficult to get up there now and change much.

edit": About an hour from this post, 44-1 came rocketing up at around 65%, while WGRZ and CHCH dropped and is now hovering the cutoff mark of 33%. Luckily it hasn't dropped out. CFTO shot back to 70% while remaining stations remained pretty much the same. ION now registers with around 20% but nothing showing. (I checked by inputting 23-4) What's the deal? My guess is that I didn't properly fasten the antenna...

Last edited by little-infinity on September 14, 2009 16:59.
Post 25 made on Monday September 14, 2009 at 20:41
rjdto
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Make sure your antenna is solidly mounted. My antenna's base is set in two bags worth of concrete and bolted to the cottage. When I climb it I rope it off in three directions. Point one at the tower and one at Buffalo.
Get a cheap UHF-VHF combiner at an electronics junk shop (i.e. Active Surplus on Queen St. $1 ). Open it up and remove the capacitors and coils and wire the three poles together.
Tools are needle nose pliers and mini soldering gun. Seal up with hot glue.
In the City the roof top antenna is 31-39 feet above ground level which is 50 feet above Lake Ontario. The two Buffalo antennas are stacked and the two aimed at the tower are side-by-side. Either setup produces the same signal. The signal goes straight into the samsung 32 inch 1080P HDTV. A second experimental antenna(32') is in the corner of the yard and just sees the tower. There is an apartment building 40 meters across the street between the roof top antenna and the tower. Trees to the south have a minor effect on the signal from Buffalo. I'll try and post some photos later.
Where are you in Miss.? You should be able to pick up 17 and 23 regardless.

Last edited by rjdto on September 14, 2009 20:53.
rjdto
OP | Post 26 made on Monday September 14, 2009 at 20:57
little-infinity
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I'm in southwest Mississauga, Clarkson Village area. Not right at the lake, but let's say about 400m. There are literally no obstructions save for trees and a few houses down the block, and the petro canada refining plant. But I've already cleared most of those obstructions.

Yeah the tower is already in 2 bags of concrete, and also buried under a thick layer of soil. We're gonna bolt it to the fence soon.

I also realized that the two coaxes running from the antennas aren't even the same length, so both are RG6. The longer one is hooked to my TV, the shorter one won't even reach the cable joint that goes into our house. Will the hardwiring still work?!
OP | Post 27 made on Friday September 18, 2009 at 16:07
little-infinity
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Okay it seems like it's less the antenna and more the cable.

Was kinda bored today so I moved the digital converter box to another older, smaller set that we never use in the basement. The basement is facing our backyard so it's MUCH closer to the antenna. Not a direct connection. It goes through a 25ft RG6 cable, and probably a 2-3 feet RG-59 cable joiner before hitting the converter box.

What I got was impressive. I picked up almost EVERY canadian station at around 60-80%! And almost EVERY Buffalo station at 70-80%.

The exceptions were CIII which was dialing in at 33%, CTS at 40%, and WGRZ at 50%. ION still gone. FOX was at 40%. Nothing to really whine about.

The issue is the cable. But the coax cables in my house are buried within the walls of the house so I can't really do much to replace them.

Where should I go from here? Seems like the antenna is OK. Is the second 4 bay beside it going to cause interference? I'm not using it at all currently, but it's still mounted in the exact configuration of my old setup, just higher on the new tower.

I'm 99% sure it's the length of my cable (and possibly it's RG-59) to our main TV.
1% could be the 2nd 4-bay being unused and causing interference.

Thoughts/suggestions? Looks like I'm almost done though! ;D
OP | Post 28 made on Wednesday September 23, 2009 at 18:50
little-infinity
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I hope I'm not bothering you guys too much here, this is my 3rd post in a row, but I have one final question. If you don't care to read my long essays of posts (I can't help it!) then just skip down to my question at the very bottom. It's in bold.

Here's another update on my situation! The left number represesnts the worst signal I've gotten on terrible weather, the right obviously being the best.

2.1, 2.2, 2.3 - 40-60% (33 on really bad days, but still kicking, probably the most variable of all the signals I'm getting)
4.1 - 50-70%
5.1 - 60-70%
7.1 - 75-85%
9.1 - 50-70%
11.1 - 30-55% (I killed some of CHCH to get 57 and 64)
17.1, 17.2, 17.3 - 70-75%
23.1 - 75%
25.1 - 28-40% (drops out on certain days, fine on others)
26.1, 26.2 - 28-40% (similar to 25.1 but drops more frequently. I couldn't care less.)
29.1, 29.2 - 30-35% (good now, hasn't dropped out, a few blips here sometimes in sound. I couldn't care less.)
36.1 - 30-33% (scrambled picture/sound often but it's coming in)
44.1 - 50%-70%
49.1, 49.2 - 75-80%
51.1, 51.2, 51.3, 51.4 - 28-35% (Yes I finally got ION after some tinkering with cables, but it's really weak. I did however recieve a good burst of it at 70% for a few hours on saturday night. On normal days it skips in and out constantly) (BTW with that same burst I picked up WROC from Rochester at 70! WHEC at 33, and even WXXI at 40! lasted all night).
57.1 - 33-35% (Manges to be stable, but really weak. No dropouts, very occasional minor picture scrambling no big deal)
64.1 - 35-45% (Finally managing to pull in OMNI1 too with cable tinkering. Not bad, a little weak but no dropouts)

Not Getting
41.1 - 25%
66.1 - 25%

To sum it all up reception has greatly improved in my situation. However there are some weak Toronto stations I would like to improve. Notably 41 and 66.

This seems to be more of a cable problem than an antenna issue now. (Again my setup is 1 4bay pointed slightly east of Buffalo South) The cable length seems to only affect the really weak signals (30-40%). If I hook the box downstairs the signals of those stations jumps to 50-60%. I get basically everything down there, even 41 and 66! All the other strong stations seem unaffected.

I already changed a few cable segments to RG6 (around 20-30% of the cable length), but there's still at least 50-60ft of RG59 cable between my basement and the living room.

I can't seem to find a cheap long RG6 cable anywhere. I just got the small segments from the dollar store or old RG6es from a former cable setup in the 80s, before I was even born.

I guess the million dollar question now is:
Will changing the long cable to RG6 make a big difference? Should I be trusting dollar store RG6? Should I worry about the age of the old cable?

I see no need for preamps at this time now. The one 4bay seems to be doing a good job. It's mostly the cables now. I just want to boost the weak Toronto stations (25,41,57,66) and WUTV.

Last edited by little-infinity on September 23, 2009 18:59.
Post 29 made on Wednesday September 23, 2009 at 22:42
BillFromGI
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I guess the million dollar question now is:
Will changing the long cable to RG6 make a big difference? Should I be trusting dollar store RG6? Should I worry about the age of the old cable?

I see no need for preamps at this time now. The one 4bay seems to be doing a good job. It's mostly the cables now. I just want to boost the weak Toronto stations (25,41,57,66) and WUTV.

YES! It will make a big difference. By all means change everything to 1 unobstructed/unsplit length of fresh-new RG-6. Also insure that it is grounded to a "good" ground (cold water pipe, 2 meter spike of copper driven into ground, etc..). Let us know how you do!
OP | Post 30 made on Thursday September 24, 2009 at 20:48
little-infinity
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Ahh okay! Where do you think I should go to find a cheap RG6 coaxial cable?

And one more thing. Is the unused 4-bay beside the one I'm using going to create multipath/interfere with the weaker signals to the east?

I've contemplated removing it altogether because it serves no purpose whatsoever....
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