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Topic:
CTV cutting to commercials early during Oscars
This thread has 9 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Monday February 23, 2009 at 06:59
Daniel Tonks
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Anyone else notice that CTV had the tendency to cut to commercial early on numerous occasions during last night's Academy Awards? Basically the person would say the last word of their speech, and BAM - commercial. Didn't always happen, but enough that I thought it odd.

So I started A/Bing CTV and off-air ABC, and in those instances ABC would continue running for about 30 seconds longer, mostly music, watching the person wave and walk off-stage, plus voice overs of what's coming up, then the oscars.com logo. Not really important stuff, but I'm surprised that CTV would be "allowed" to do this, especially under simsub rules. I found it most irksome when they did it to Jerry Lewis.
Post 2 made on Monday February 23, 2009 at 20:39
hd fan
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What does the Simsub rules has to do with CTV doing this?. In any case , Itsn't the BDU the one who has to meet those rules, Is it?. Sometimes Bell TV to meet those rules switch back to the Original US Network but I just watched the end last night and it stayed CTV all the way on both E and W HD ABC channels. Mediastat aparrently is the company that automatically distribute this Program Substitution information (only the information not the actual substitution process itself) in Canada, check this for more info [Link: mediastats.com].

As per the CRTC here [Link: crtc.gc.ca] it explais the program substitution process and at the end you can contact them if the substitued signal is not good enough.

I have not been able to find anywhere where it says that in this cases (going a bit earlier to substitued comercials) a rule is broken. Obviuosly the fact that I have not seen it does not necessarilly means that it does not exist , and this coming from an aethist , lol.

Well , after digging deeper I think I found something useful. Here is completely the Broadcasting Distribution Regulations by the CRTC. [Link: crtc.gc.ca]

Section 30 and Section 42 are the ones related to this substitution matters. I am not a lawyer but as per Section 30 (6) and I quote:

(6) A licensee may discontinue a deletion and substitution made under subsection (2) or (3) if the programming services in respect of which the deletion and substitution are made are not, or are no longer, comparable and broadcast simultaneously.

Note that it is up to the Licensee , in this case every BDU , to discontinue the substitution if it considers that it is no longer comparable?. Whether a few seconds before comercial is no longer comparable are another 20 pesos.

There was a precedent with the 2008 Super bowl and CTV filed a complaint with the CRTC as per this Broadcasting decision from CRTC [Link: crtc.gc.ca]

So who knows , maybe now BDU's are more flexible when interpreting Section 30 (6) , Dont you think?.

Last edited by hd fan on February 23, 2009 20:50.
Post 3 made on Monday February 23, 2009 at 20:48
hd fan
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Wow , I repeat I am not a lawyer but in my opinon Section 42 does not add anything new to Section 30 and basically repeats itself. I wonder if someone ever read those 2 sections at the same time , lol , or maybe I as a non lawyer I am missing something , maybe a loop hole?

There is nothing else related to simsubs in that big regulation.

It is amazing in this country how easily one can find almost anything goverment related including regulations and still some people complain about the Canadian goverment! lol Go to Cuba and tell me about it! lol.
OP | Post 4 made on Monday February 23, 2009 at 23:09
Daniel Tonks
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What drives me nuts is that there's differences between the US and Canadian broadcasts like this, and due to cable/satellite substitutions those viewers aren't even given the opportunity to watch an "unmolested" broadcast. Ignorance is bliss, right?
Post 5 made on Tuesday February 24, 2009 at 00:20
hd fan
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If Ignorance was Bliss , then we would not have such a wonderful forum here to educate ourselves and also other TV viewers nor would we spend any time or effort on it. Right?.

I am biased on this matters due to my former marxist-based education I guess. Nor do I care because this is not my Country. Sad but true. But it is yours so If I were you I would call your TV provider , (Rogers no?) and ask them and if not satisfied also contact the regulatory body , the CRTC. I just watched the last hour of the Oscars so...

The subject (simsub) is quite complex , as life itself, and my views and opinions might be too simplistic for the lack of a better word. On one side , simsub is needed even if we the users dont like it to protect the way the TV industry works in some countries. At the same time regulations most protect consumers but without obstructing the development of the industry. It applys to any industry or human activity.

As humans we always want more and better and therefore we will never be completly happy for most of us not realizing that hapiness lies in the path and search for it rather that the end result.

In simple words and translated to this subject , I used 2 have only 2 TV channels that at some times were only 1 and the Oscars was only a summary in the newspaper or if lucky maybe a short 2 or 3 minutes video news on
TV. The same for NASA or the World Series , you name it. But that was it unless you were among the lucky ones who had a UHF TV antenna and amplifier hidden somewhere during the day , mast raised at night time. Missing 30 seconds last night was nothing compared with the 1 hour I gained, lol. I won the lottery almost seven years ago so I do not even bother playing. If you catch my drift.

As I always say to the newly arrived cubans that complain about so many comercials; In this life you either have 2 or 4 TV channels with the Goverment telling you what to do at the end of the show or freedom and a 100 or more with ads every 12 minutes. Your choice!. lol.
OP | Post 6 made on Tuesday February 24, 2009 at 00:42
Daniel Tonks
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I have no problems with watching Canadian advertisements instead of American ones (they get drug ads, we get KY and make-up)... well, except for maybe the Superbowl... but it seems that Canadian channels have a high rate of managing to SOMEHOW mess things up.

For example, CTV for the past few years has simsubbed an upconverted widescreen SD version of "Dancing with the Stars" over the US HD version. Global messes around with audio equalization and usually has a soft image.

Occasionally they do things right: Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy in HD on CBC, when ABC Buffalo only has SD. Wheel isn't even on in the same timeslot as ABC, but I tape it from earlier and play it overtop of ABC. And I'll watch CTV's broadcast of Lost over ABC any day, since they don't play that "run 2 minutes overtime" game. In fact I even completely avoid CBS on Sunday because they have a 75% chance of running some random amount late due to football.

(I don't know if you've been in Canada long enough to notice that as a people Canadians like to complain a lot, but rarely get around to doing anything about it... :-)
Post 7 made on Tuesday February 24, 2009 at 20:08
hd fan
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On February 24, 2009 at 00:42, Daniel Tonks said...

(I don't know if you've been in Canada long enough to notice that as a people Canadians like to complain a lot, but rarely get around to doing anything about it... :-)

Oh yeah!, its been almost 7 years now since I "won the lottery" lol. And as a non Canadian I will call my TV provider ,Bell TV, and let them know of the issue. I am also a member of the BEV Technical Forum and therefore will post this issue to move the "hot potato" over there. They have a very nice, promptly and accurately answered technical forum (although sometimes you will see I disagree heavily with them , lol ) at [Link: vutechinfo.ca] . No other provider have such a publicly open technical forum. Not that I am aware of. I have to give them credit for that.

Depending with the level of satisfaction I get with their responses then I will excersice my freedom to contact the CRTC and enforce the matter deeper. After all that was the only reason I left Cuba , Enjoy and Excercise Freedom , anywhere , anytime and with anyone. But I need sometime this has to be documented and properly analized. Too bad my UHF set up is down these days for most US networks and eventhough all the time I record everything sometimes it is impossible for me to document everything to make an informed decision (no signal form NBC or ABC buffalo) . The idea, as always of course, to improve the service rather than neglect it.

In regards of Canadians attitude , what can I say , they dont even seem to Enjoy and Excercise the most basic and important Freedom and Capability Humans have and that is; Interpersonal Comunications. Countless times we as Cubans have seen young men walked by young women and they not even seem to notice the presence of the opposite sex !!. We on the contrary walk with the "radar" always on , lol. Unbeliveable!. Well to be fair , Montreal is the exception or maybe it only happens in Ontario , lol. I have not travelled the rest of this vast Country. Not yet.
Post 8 made on Tuesday February 24, 2009 at 21:32
hd fan
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I just called Bell TV CSR phone line to file a note for a Supervisor and also posted this matter on their technical forum. Lets, of course, wait for their answer. If needed I will also contact CTV, after all they are the ones asking BDU's to enforce this simsub process.

Now off to the "tragedy" of calling my family back in Cuba. Lets see how much Eco there is in the phone call tonight, if it goes through! lol. At least with Eco I get to hear them twice for the same amount of money , lol , what a bargain! lol.

You see , Daniel , you have to see the light at the end of the tunnel , always, no matter how dark it is. If needed keep walking towards the end, you will find it or unfortunaelly will die while trying.
Post 9 made on Thursday February 26, 2009 at 18:56
hd fan
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Someone from the Bell Technical Department answered my question today on their technical forum. There is a 95% similarity rule in the regulations (that I obviously missed since I have not read the whole regulations) therefore , those few seconds fell into the 5% Canadian TV stations are allowed. I do not know about you Daniel , but at least for me the matter have been clarified.

Now I am going to install a CM 4221HD (could not find the old CM 4221 these days) to improve reception of the Colden/Buffalo signals. And since I am stubborn, I will install it in the bsmt as the other previous antennas, lol. Will post results on the main thread later.
Post 10 made on Monday November 9, 2009 at 14:09
z_man4
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The guy in charge of co-coordinating live on air events at CTV is Harold Wesley, CTV On-Air Operations, 416-384-5000. He’s super nice guy and will be happy to explain how things work. Basically CTV takes in the satellite feed and has a listen only line to the production control room doing the live broadcast. The information CTV gets are: stand by to break and roll break, if lucky. It was explained that going to break the USA networks air billboards, most times supers over live action, just prior to commercials.
For example, the voice over announcer starts off “Live from Los Angeles the 81st Academy Awards are brought to you by….” CTV cuts to commercial.
That’s why I watch the OTA HD broadcasts, I enjoy the US Super bowl commercials and the upcoming previews to my next episode of my favourite shows.
For the record, the CRTC forced cable companies with a must carry of local stations, and in return gave the Canadian broadcasters simulcast substitutions. Now with all the new specialty channels which are paid a carriage fee, the rules have not kept up.
But that’s a whole other debate, about Canadian content.
Other questions are why is there simulcast substitutions on specialty channels that are not over the air, or substitutions OTA broadcasts where there are no border stations. Some complaints have already been filed, Edmonton having to watch CFTO from Toronto for CSI, Bell ExpressVu. And Videotron in Quebec City.
Personally, I think Canadian stations with Over The Air broadcast licenses will allow them to expire when they are required to go HD. Fewer affiliates, more space for cable/satellite to add more pay stations, with less rules. Networks will get pay per subscriber, and drop the carriage fee argument. Resulting in networks having one affiliate in each time zone.
So much for local programming. Sorry, what local programming, besides news?

Last edited by z_man4 on November 10, 2009 08:59.


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