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Topic:
Free to Air Satellite - true FTA
This thread has 117 replies. Displaying posts 31 through 45.
OP | Post 31 made on Wednesday October 15, 2008 at 10:07
donnyjaguar
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Right now I have to readjust for Galaxy18 123. It turns out the problem is an active transponder on the same frequency on the 125 satellite. A bigger dish is probably a better solution though. Get the stepladder out and haul the tv outside again.
Donny Jaguar
Post 32 made on Wednesday October 15, 2008 at 20:52
hd fan
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I relocated the tripod to a better location in the patio and now it locks to a few more TPs on the same Hispasat 30W. There are a couple of trees farther away still but quality jumped to 88% from 68% before. Watching the soccer game between Argentina and Chile via Canal 7 from Chile which by the way it is on PPV on Dish Network!!!!. BTW that channel shows IRDETO as the Conditional Access System (CAS) yet my receiver still plays the video and audio. Of course other channels using either Irdeto or PowerVU or Nagravision are black screen for me. No idea why this one with irdeto works.

Yeah, a bigger Dish means higher directionality and of course more dificult to aim lol lol. Will try Galaxy 18 myself tomorrow.
OP | Post 33 made on Thursday October 16, 2008 at 15:16
donnyjaguar
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I'm looking for a 1.2m dish myself. I'll plonk Galaxy18 on it and use my current 33" dish on a motor for everything else. All I need to do is move house to get some more room for all these woks.
Donny Jaguar
Post 34 made on Thursday October 16, 2008 at 23:33
hd fan
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ok I aimed today to Galaxy 18 @ 123W and I am getting more than 86 on most Tp's . BTW I had to update the TP list that my receiver had. Even the blind scan missed a couple of TP's (and found some TP's that belong to Echostar 9 121W). It seems flakey sometimes the blind scan feature but it is very usefull though. But I am also getting interference from Echostar 9 @ 121W with 2 TP's, 11965 V and 12104 V. The funny things is that when I added manually those 2 TP's it locks to the signal with around 70 but despite finding TV channels when I scan them independently it does not add those channels to the channel list. It also locks to several TP's from Echostar 9 which Dish Network operates and therefore has way more power output. It was dark already to try to aim better to avoid the interference , will try tomorrow though.

I definitely noticed today that the main install dish menu where you enter the LNB and switch config only locks to satellite signal if you get a lock to TP 1 and TP 1 only. I thought that maybe they were using the Sat beacon for that but defineately no. Manual scan screen is the way to go to aim and then use weak TP to fine tune. Cordless headphones priceless!!!

It is also funny that as per lyngsat a 90 cm dish should be big enough for my location for the 3 SATS that I have locked to already yet I am always missing some TP's for whatever reason. Galaxy 18 is a brand new Sat so it must have full power. It could also be that the TP list that my receiver has it is outdated, I will look into that in the next few days. Will try Telestar 12 at 15W tomorrow (if I dont find a date lol lol lol), very low in the sky for me and with lots of trees like 30W. Motor finally will be installed this weekend for sure and then I will get everything from 30W to 123W at least.

BTW as I was suspecting the Elevation scale on the Dish arm is not off by 8 degrees!!! , it was just that the pole or mast was not plumb or perfectly vertical. Today for Galaxy at a different location in the patio it was off by only 4 degrees , it has to be the mast inclination.

The coolsat 6000 receiver sometimes looses the other SAt channels after doing several manual scans , maybe a bug in the firmware, not a big deal anyways. I have run into other channels with DD audio tracks and even in Spanish but the close caption feature on the receiver does not work. I have to use the CC decoder on the tv itself. Some TV channels show a lot of macroblocking or compresion artifacts due to the low bitrate allocated for them. some even the picture jumps although it could be a source related issue but coincidentaly the all have a commun culprit , low SR or Symbol Rate.
Post 35 made on Friday October 17, 2008 at 11:18
hd fan
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BTW this is the second time I left the receiver in standby overnight and then in the morning it cleared all the channels!!!. not only that it also defaulted everything so I lost the newly added tp's and updated satellite names. will start living the receiver on overnight to see if it happens again. not funny if I had the motor already setup lol lol. I did a blind scan though and this time it added almost everything including the 11965 V TP that I had interference last night with Echostar 9 at 121W. now almost 50 channels, this morning the skyes are very sunny. that TP has channels that says HD in their name but they are obviously SD as my non HD receiver decodes them.

Most of the Spanish channels BTW are just different Univision Affiliates so basically it is the same show all the time. 1 Telefutura channel has an AC-3 DD 2.0 Spanish audio track. Nothing else to add so far. I beleive the new Galaxy 18 is acctually located at 123.5 W not 123 like the replaced Galaxy 10R, maybe to avoid interference from Echostar 9 121W. I could be wrong though.
Post 36 made on Friday October 17, 2008 at 11:33
1ziggi1
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Try this for satellite location.
[Link: n2yo.com]
OP | Post 37 made on Friday October 17, 2008 at 11:47
donnyjaguar
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On October 16, 2008 at 23:33, hd fan said...
ok I aimed today to Galaxy 18 @ 123W and I am getting
more than 86 on most Tp's . BTW I had to update the TP
list that my receiver had.

I've never got more than 70 on Gxy10, but on one transponder on Gxy18 I'm getting 86. That said, the bulk of the programming I want is the stuff getting nailed by what I'm told is the 125 bird. Now I'm wondering if 121 is causing issues too? I have the same sized wok at you, btw. Do you know where to pick up the 1.2m Channelmaster (or other) dish locally?

I had to add a few transponders to my Viewsat too.

BTW as I was suspecting the Elevation scale on the Dish
arm is not off by 8 degrees!!! , it was just that the
pole or mast was not plumb or perfectly vertical. Today
for Galaxy at a different location in the patio it was
off by only 4 degrees , it has to be the mast inclination.

Yes, putting the pole vertical cannot be understated. In my case, I have it mounted sideways to the back wall of my house making alignment a little more challenging.

The coolsat 6000 receiver sometimes looses the other SAt
channels after doing several manual scans

I don't seem to have this problem with my Viewsat, but I gather previous firmware iterations did. They also had issues with creating duplicate channels. I have noticed that out of the box the Viewsat has all satellites turned ON which causes problems. You have to go into each one that isn't used and turn the LNB power OFF.

TV channels show a lot of macroblocking or compresion
artifacts due to the low bitrate allocated for them. some
even the picture jumps although it could be a source related
issue but coincidentaly the all have a commun culprit
, low SR or Symbol Rate.

Agreed. Some channels are very grainy on the bigscreen.
Donny Jaguar
Post 38 made on Friday October 17, 2008 at 21:19
hd fan
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125 W? I thought you had a typo yesterday because 125 W is only C-band and I was under the impression you only had a Ku band set up. I can see now I was wrong. I guess you are getting interference on the C-Band , in my case it is an only Ku band set up with a 90 cm dish. 121 W is only Ku band linear polarization from Dish Network (20 000 SR).

The coolsat receiver also has all Sat LNB power on and now that you mention it I will turn them off tonight and probably that is why when I put it on standby it messes the channels and everything. Thanks for pointing that out.

I am watching those channels on a CRT based 27" Toshiba TV, and Digital FTA really shows the compresion artifacts that us, HDTV customers, are always complaining about to our TV providers !!!!. Beleive me , I had never seen so many and diverse compression artifacts before !!! and I have been watching digital TV either HD or SD OTA and via BEV or Cable for 3 years now !!!! ( I am using a 40" Samsung 71 series TV for HDTV) . BTW some of the Cuban TV channels (on Hispasat 1D) even show scrolling horizontal lines probably related to ground loops and of course generated at the source in Havana ,Cuba. I remember back in Cuba I though it was my outdoor antenna but I can see that even after the digital conversion to upstream to the SAT (Cuban tv still produces the NTSC using Analog Studio Cameras and Analog Video equipment, no Digital studio upgrades yet) you can still see those problems. Even the same show on a different channel has less vivid colors although you can even tell that difference here on DTV everytime there is a presidential debate being carried by several networks. Usually CBS has the best quality for me.

Final bitrate for every channels depends not only on the SR but also on the FEC and the amount of tv channels per TP (assuming they are not using Statistical multiplexing and it is a fixed bitrate per tv channel) . Also the digital modulation but almost all this FTA channels uses QPSK modulation otherwise our tuners would not be able tu tune them in( I found on Lyngsat 2 or 3 channels using 8PSK and also on the clear). It will be interesting to compare the same tv channel either from the FTA receiver with the one coming in my BEV system. BEV like Dish Network uses SR 20 000 but with a different FEC and the same QPSK and typically around 14 to 16 SD channels per TP.

The funny thing is that some of these FTA channels are actually intended to be used by the Cable and Satellite providers to download those channels and distribute them to their customers so at the end it does not matter the quality of final stream from your provider but the weakest link in the transport chain from the TV channel Master Control to your provider's Headend equipment. Of course no TV provider will probably tell you which method the use to get their channels but if you contact the tv channel itself they will tell you.

Right now I can not watch any channel from TP 11800 V, could be interference related the issue but yesterday I could watch them.

1ziggi1 thanks for the link.
Post 39 made on Saturday October 18, 2008 at 10:21
1ziggi1
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I don't know about the Coolsat but the Viewsonic and Sonicview receivers can backup the channel/TP list via the USB. If you can do that you might want to do it to keep from having to reset everything.
Post 40 made on Saturday October 18, 2008 at 17:25
hd fan
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my coolsat 6000 premium does not have USB but it has in the menu the option to use an RS-232 cable to update. The new Coolsat 6100 and the CW 700 has USB though, in my opinion no need to pay extra for USB connectivity.

I finally installed the motor today (HH90), and it is indeed the way to go for a full FTA experience. Using USALS with the coolsat 6000 was a no brainer. I just had to lock to the closest sat to my true south (79W AMC 5) and that is it. I even got a CNN feed this time and some College futbol games which look horrible due to a low bit rate. I guess the key to success was TO MAKE SURE THE POLE OR MAST WAS PLUMB. I have not tried my farthest east and west sats (30W and 123W) and I beleive I might loose som TPs on those if I get a lock because the pole it is not 100% plumb. For the final location I will make sure of that but at least around 79 so far I get all TP's for every SAT.

One question though, Some times when I do a blind scan it reports the TP as 11800 and sometimes as 11799 or 11801 , I wonder why?. Is it because it uses the strongest signal for 1 of the frecuencies and then reports that one as the center frecuency for that TP?. Well , I guess if it is a blind scan it has no idea of the actual TP distribution eh? , but it works ok and that is important. Blind scan is another most feature to have.
Post 41 made on Saturday October 18, 2008 at 18:57
hd fan
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well apparently the pole is not too off because I am getting everything from 30W to 123W and even those which are low for me and 30W with trees I am getting every TP possible with the exception of only one which works intermitently. Well , the skies are very clear which helps for signal reception. I noticed that G18 I have now 68% with the motor and before aiming manually I got 86.

Apparently Telestar 12 at 15W is too low for me (only a tripod with standar pole and the HH90 motor actually lowers the hight of the dish half almost 3/4 feet. Beyond 123W there is nothing in Ku band using Linear polarization so that is my limit. I still have to add a few sats to the factory list that the coolsat 6000 has. So far very hhapy with install and very impress with the accuracy and ease of use of the USALS system. Now off to watch the MLB games on HD on BEV lol lol lol.

I hope all this helps somehow someone who plans to get into FTA.
Post 42 made on Saturday October 18, 2008 at 19:59
Daniel Tonks
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One question though, Some times when I do a blind scan it reports the TP as 11800 and sometimes as 11799 or 11801 , I wonder why?.

Blind scan attempts to "blindly" determine from scratch what frequencies transponders are using, so some minor variance there doesn't seem out of line. Could also just be a limitation of its accuracy.
Post 43 made on Sunday October 19, 2008 at 20:35
hd fan
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Well , the actual limits of the Stab HH90 motor that I am using are 60 degrees to each side (East and West). The manual says 65 electronic limit and 70 mechanical limit but in reality it is 60 degrees. For instance I live in Mississauga therefore longitud 79.6 so the Motor can only move the Dish from Sats at 20.6 W (79.6 - 59) to Sats located as far West at 138.6 W (79.6 + 59). That is why everytime I tryed to blind scan Telestar 12 @ 15W the Dish did not moved no matter where it was aiming at. The same for the orbital location 148 W well beyond the motor limit. I even deleted any possible limit that by mistake I might have set and nothing. I thought it was the pole not plumb or maybe trees but that was not the case either. Even for 22W (NSS 7) I have no problems.

I am using a Universal LNB but there are only 3 Sats, all Intelsat, for which you actually need a Universal LNB. They are Intelsat 9 , 3R and 707 but they just have network feeds and 2 or 3 tv channels. It takes longer to do a blind scan with a Universal LNB since it has to scan the hole spectrum from 10.7 to 12.75 Ghz. It took me almost 3 hours to blind scan every Linear KU Satellite I can aim to (from 22W NSS 7 to 129W G27) and guess what , this morning after doing a blind scan to a Sat the receiver sunddenly restarted and deleted all the channels!!!!. I am trying to locate a file with all the channels and sats to add it to the receiver. I guess the USB slot is indeed needed eh?. Other than that , everything works perfectly.

And clear skyes and no wind like today makes a big difference with the Quality level. Will se how the 90 cm dish behaves under some rain.
Post 44 made on Sunday October 19, 2008 at 21:30
WayneB
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I use a Traxis DBS 3500 for blind scanning dvb-S, it is very fast. I use TechnoTrend DVB-S2 pci cards in my HTPC for watching most stuff. I have both C and Ku dishes so I can always find something interesting. The PC is able to decode mpeg2 and newer H.264 feeds that have been showing up more and more lately. I would recommend that anyone interested in this hobby get a DVB-S2 receiver. The feeds at 123 degrees sometimes are harder to get due to severe weather in Arkansas where they are uplinked. Gary from the network that uplinks the channels and who also has a show on many of the channels at night, sometimes posts at satelliteguys.us website. I would recommend a minimum Ku dish size of 90cm. and for C-band a 10 ft. is a good starting point although there are some feeds you can get on a smaller sized dish.
OP | Post 45 made on Monday October 20, 2008 at 11:06
donnyjaguar
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You said: 125 W? I thought you had a typo yesterday because 125 W is only C-band and I was under the impression you only had a Ku band set up. I can see now I was wrong.

I say: What I've been told is that AMC21 does indeed have linear transponders on Ku 11800 and 11720 and these are the ones interfering with Galaxy18. It must be super-secret stuff because its not on Lyngsat. On the weekend I re-adjusted my fixed 33" dish. I got much better signal on 11720 (about 60%) but the best I could bag on 11800 is about 37%. A little disappointing, but at least the signal isn't jumping around like a mad thing. I even tried swapping the LNB polarity and moving the skew and focal point.

You said: One question though, Some times when I do a blind scan it reports the TP as 11800 and sometimes as 11799 or 11801 ,

I say: I found you can tune a couple of MHz off and still get good signal. I'm not sure what's more unstable, a local oscillator in space as some ridiculously cold temperature or a consumer-grade set top box. :)

You said: I noticed that G18 I have now 68% with the motor and before aiming manually I got 86. I'm guessig this is to do with the adjacent satellite interference. I noticed the same thing on the weekend manually tweaking my rig.

You said: I am using a Universal LNB

I Say: I need to get me one of these. I think this makes the difference between getting sacked by interference and getting a clear picture. Which one are you using?
Donny Jaguar
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