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Topic:
Motorola box resetting itself
This thread has 13 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Monday October 10, 2005 at 13:07
nh-hifiguy
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Customer had the cable company out to replace the cable box a few days ago. Over the weekend, I made a service call to this customer as they were complaining the the TV was in 4:3 mode and there was white interferance lines on the top of the picture.

Knew what that was in a moment and reset the Motorola 6412 box back to 16:9 and 1080i.

Tested the system by shutting everything down...(cablebox stays on always). The box had gone back to 4:3 and 480i.

Cable company came out to replace the box today while I was there and tested again.

TV is a Sony crt rear pro.

I was using a DVI cable with an HDMI adaptor at the cable box end.

When the TV was shut off the cable box would reset.

I swapped out to componant and everythig works fine.

Any idea's what is going on. It is almost as if the cable box was resetting itself if it found no live port on the TV which would be weired.
Post 2 made on Monday October 10, 2005 at 15:49
Ernie Bornn-Gilman
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This is similar to a problem I ran into with a Scientific Atlanta HD DVR, HDMI output, and Gefen HDMI switcher.

If we switched the Gefen away from the cable box, then back again, the cable box would be on channel 1, the video on demand channel. This is just like the channel that comes up when you turn on a hotel TV. There was no way I could find to have the cable box stay on the previous channel. (I just realized I should have placed a previous channel command in the turn-on macro!)

Anyway, I tested many things on that system, and it all came down to "switching the HDMI input changed the cable box." That always made it happen, and nothing else made it happen.

Perhaps the video settings thing has to do with switching HDMI.

Does anybody out there know if HDMI is supposed to carry command or setup information BACK to the source, or does it just have audio and video?
(This will be a separate thread)
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 3 made on Monday October 10, 2005 at 18:53
Daniel Tonks
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It doesn't normally carry commands, hower the box does have to negotiate a 2-way connection and HDCP, so I guess it decides it's going to reset after that. I know one of my HDMI DVRs insists on switching from a dedicated output mode to "auto" whenever you use HDMI.
Post 4 made on Monday October 10, 2005 at 20:43
sceneselections
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In the menu options try turning the ac outlet of the cable box to always on.
I bet you have the tv or something plugged into the spare outlet of the cable box,
chuckle
"Looks good from my house"
Yeah we don't hang out with those guys! Just tell them how not to do it, smile and walk out with some respect.
OP | Post 5 made on Tuesday October 11, 2005 at 07:48
nh-hifiguy
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No the Tv is not plugged into the cable box.

If there is a two way communication from the box to the TV via the HDMI, that resulted in a change of the box settings, then there must be a gazillion problems out there.

I don't have the nerve to call C*mcast, but would like to speak to someone at Motorola.

This is an odd problem.

Thanks all for the help so far....will let you know the outcome
Post 6 made on Tuesday October 11, 2005 at 09:38
Ernie Bornn-Gilman
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I emailed Julie Jacobson about this after seeing your post and yet another one, and she has passed it on to her HDMI guru. We'll see.

You're right, there must be thousands of problems out there.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 7 made on Tuesday October 11, 2005 at 19:04
Daniel Tonks
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Well, for example, my Scientific Atlanta 8300HD refuses to acknowledge that my Marantz SR9600 with HDMI v1.1 switching is HDCP compliant. It'll produce output over HDMI, but it says that "my display device is not HDCP compliant, use component instead". While my Sony DHG-HDD500 sees the SR9600 specifically as an "HDCP Compliant Repeater".

So it's not that the 8300HD can't get HDCP, it's just that it doesn't like or know what to do with a "repeater". And considering that thing thing gets live firmware updates all the time, I can't believe this is still occuring. From reading reports on the net, the 8300HD is only flakey HDMI device.
Post 8 made on Wednesday October 12, 2005 at 23:22
Ernie Bornn-Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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Daniel,
That might be the model HD DVR in the setup I worked on. I only programmed the remote and did some last minute hookups after the installer alienated himself completely from the client.

Anyway, the DVR goes to a Gefen switcher, whose manual says nothing at all about control signals. The output of the Gefen switcher goes locally to a Sharp projector and via 2 CAT5s to the HDMI input of a Panasonic plasma.

Now, if the display can influence what happens at the source, what the heck will happen with this combination? We get no actual malfunction, only the DVR switching back to channel 1, video on demand, when we switch away and back. To any other input, either the DVD or the four unused ones.

I think it is HDMI that is screwy.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 9 made on Thursday October 13, 2005 at 03:21
Daniel Tonks
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The Marantz manual has some details in it and goes into mentioning that some upconverting DVD players will not work with "repeaters" (despite the fact that anything HDCP compliant is supposed to be secure, otherwise why bother).

As far as I know, when you have a SOURCE -> SWITCH (AKA "repeater") -> DISPLAY type system, the SOURCE is supposed to HDCP authenticate with the SWITCH and the SWITCH is supposed to HDCP authenticate with the DISPLAY. After that, the DISPLAY communicates its capabilities with the SOURCE (for instance sound and video modes), and I believe this communications is part of the "control" capabilities of HDMI, which also support input switching and so forth. However I don't (think) I have anything that supports that, and since I don't see how this would work well with a switch in the middle, I'd hope the end devices would allow you to disable it.

It could be this is just a quirk of the DVR - what happens when it estabilishes a HDMI/HDCP connection. I also know that Sci Atl boxes have a setting where you can choose to have it always power on channel 1 (the default), any specific channel, or the last channel viewed.
Post 10 made on Thursday October 13, 2005 at 23:08
Ernie Bornn-Gilman
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On 10/13/05 03:21 ET, Daniel Tonks said...
As far as I know, when you have a SOURCE -> SWITCH
(AKA "repeater") -> DISPLAY type system, the SOURCE
is supposed to HDCP authenticate with the SWITCH
and the SWITCH is supposed to HDCP authenticate
with the DISPLAY. After that, the DISPLAY
communicates
its capabilities with the SOURCE (for instance
sound and video modes), and I believe this
communications
is part of the "control" capabilities of HDMI,
which also support input switching and so forth.

Okay. So what happens when your Gefen switcher sends the HDMI signal to two displays? Will it matter which is plugged into output one?

I also know that Sci Atl boxes have
a setting where you can choose to have it always
power on channel 1 (the default), any specific
channel, or the last channel viewed.

I will definitely look for that. I did not see it when I set up the box (it was a replacement so it was set up over the phone without a tech on hand to answer questions) and I am probably going over there again to deal with this issue. I was going to add a "last station" command after all the switching was done so that it would go to 1, then jump to where it had been, but so much the better if it can be hard-commanded via the menu.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 11 made on Thursday October 13, 2005 at 23:24
Daniel Tonks
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On 10/13/05 23:08 ET, Ernie Bornn-Gilman said...
Okay. So what happens when your Gefen switcher
sends the HDMI signal to two displays? Will it
matter which is plugged into output one?

No idea what would happen. I can't imagine how any sort of control or EDID system work would when the output is split like that.
Post 12 made on Saturday October 15, 2005 at 13:12
Ernie Bornn-Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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On 10/13/05 23:24 ET, Daniel Tonks said...
No idea what would happen. I can't imagine how
any sort of control or EDID system work would
when the output is split like that.

EXACTLY. So how is HDMI of any use? It sounds at the start like it is some kind of savior, but details like this mean that it can only be used in simple stand-alone systems.

To put it negatively, in a way that shows how it will affect the pocketbook of the manufacture who uses it, this hifalutin connection method guarantees that I can only use these products in simpler, less sophisticated systems. When my client wants the expensive whole-house audio plus HD image system, this approach is trash.

This is EXACTLY the problem with expensive components that don't have discrete commands. Some of the early high-priced projectors come to mind. I would not use them because I could not make the video switching disappear from the client's point of view, so these expensive products were not usable in systems with expensive control systems. And don't get me started on getting around this with JVC D-ILA by using RS-232!
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 13 made on Sunday October 16, 2005 at 01:31
Daniel Tonks
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Well obviously Gefen would have had to think of this - have you tried emailing or phoning them? One solution would be to strip out all control information, or maybe only provide say the EDID information from the first output port. I know some simpler source switches are designed to store the display's EDID to get around the problem of having the multiple source devices thinking the output device keeps turning on and off.
OP | Post 14 made on Wednesday October 19, 2005 at 16:48
nh-hifiguy
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Here is the quote from Motorola:

Hello. Thank you for choosing Motorola. Robert I apologize for any inconvenience that you may have suffered. There are known issues with the HDMI connection. Future firmware update will resolve issue. If issues persist dont hesitate to give us a call at 1-877-466-8646 or contact us via Email. Thank you for choosing Motorola Products and have a nice day.


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