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Raleigh Reception
This thread has 32 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Friday February 11, 2005 at 11:23
barlow
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535
Curious if anyone else is having trouble receiving the local OTA digital PBS channel.

I had it locked in to around a steady 7 to 8 on signal strength but now it barely receives the station.

-Don B
OP | Post 2 made on Monday February 14, 2005 at 09:33
barlow
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I finally got PBS working again my readusting the position of the antenna yet again. Not sure what is causing the drift.

-Don B
OP | Post 3 made on Tuesday February 15, 2005 at 11:01
barlow
Active Member
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535
PBS digital signal lost again last night due to a Spring Rain passing thru.

I am beginning to think that digital OTA is effected by rain.

I need to hook up the antenna to my analog tuner and see how much the Analog signal for PBS is effected by rain. It should be a good test as it appears from Antennaweb.org that both the digital and the analog transmit antennas are located very close together.

Other obs:
Both WB and UPN which came in on 22.1 and 28.1 respectively switched to 57 and 27 respectively. What is that all about ?

And what I find troubling is:
How does a Sat signal being beamed from outerspace come in stronger than a broadcast antenna 25 miles from me broadcasting in the Megawatt range ?

Does a tv transmit antenna have that much more horizontal occulting of the signal as opposed to a Sat signal just beaming thru the upper atmosphere ? I can't believe that Sat tranmission is that high power. Maybe it is the frequency that Sats are allowed to use or because Sats don't interfere with each other like TV antennas do.

Why can't HD TV stations put up additonal repeater antennas like Cell phone towers do ? Is it a revenue thing , or interfernece thing, or just a fcc approval thing ?

Where is Tesla when you need him ??????????

-Don B
Post 4 made on Tuesday February 15, 2005 at 19:05
ontariocraig
Long Time Member
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162
Hey Don,

I'm not from your area, and dont know the local situation there - but I I thought I'd share my thoughts anyways.

For digital signals : As Im sure you know they're broadcast using UHF frequencies just like the analog signals (or possibly VHF) - however if you have a marginal signal, then you're more likely to lose that signal in the rain. whereas with an analog signal you may just get a bit of snow - barely noticable on a smaller set, with a digital signal it could be enough to lose entirely.

Digital: If the datastream isnt complete your reciever cant process it and create the wonderful picture / sound. period. so you get tiling, or loss of picture entirely. Mmmm, maybe not such a bad thing with reality shows...:-)

Analog : You'll get picture / sound with varying degrees of quality depending on the signal degradation.

In the Buffalo and Toronto areas, most digital stations are broadcasting at reduced power - presumably due to the relatively small numbers tuned into these broadcasts, (Just buying hardware to recieve these broadcasts is very difficult here in Canada) and so those low power signals are more likely to be attenuated by poor weather conditions, particularly if you have a marginal signal to begin with. - I'm not sure what the situation is in Raliegh, but it's something to consider. (Although I personally recieve very reliable reception from all stations except WB49 which I dont get at all)

I think w'ere going to have to wait another year or two for (a) the stations to go full power (b) for the technology to mature a little more - both tranmission and reception (c) for the viewers tuned into these signals to increase - surely once that happens the stations will be able to justify devoting more resoures to them, both $ and manpower.

From a TV station point of view : I'd guess if there's a problem that requires resources at the digital transmitter, and a problem at the analog transmitter - then analog will get taken care of first and foremost, as thats where most of the viewers are. That's just my guess, I dont really know for sure.

My understanding (and I could be wrong here) is that higher frequncies can travel further with less power, but are more susceptible to inteference, being blocked etc. A satellite uses much higher frequencies to broadcast, and at very low power, requiring the use of a parabloic antenna and LNB (the ubiqitious "dish") simply putting your hand in front of a satellite LNB will block the signal. Satellite dishes are also very prone to rain and heavy clouds, I know back when I used to have one, it would lose signal 2 or 3 times a year during heavy rain / thick dark clouds appeared - and my dish was properly aligned. A bigger dish helps a lot, but not many people want a large ugly dish on their house, particularly if it has to go on the front.

Craig





On 02/15/05 11:01 ET, barlow said...
PBS digital signal lost again last night due to
a Spring Rain passing thru.

I am beginning to think that digital OTA is effected
by rain.

I need to hook up the antenna to my analog tuner
and see how much the Analog signal for PBS is
effected by rain. It should be a good test as
it appears from Antennaweb.org that both the digital
and the analog transmit antennas are located very
close together.

OP | Post 5 made on Wednesday February 16, 2005 at 10:29
barlow
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2004
535
Craig,

Thanks for the feed back.

I am getting a Channel Master 4228 in the mail today that I will install in the attic. I am hoping it will receive PBS better. I plan to use it to replace the small RCA tv top antenna with built in amp.

I have the Square Shooter on the other side of the attic where the signal is strongest for the stations facing in that direction.

Maybe I could have just swapped the two existing antennas around but I think I still would have had trouble receiving Fox.

The bad news is that the Better half is home today and when she see the antenna sitting on the front porch I will probably not have a home to come home to !!

You guys have some interesting dialogue going on the Ontario Buffalo post paritcularly about upgrading old Samsungs for compliance with the new regs.

-Don B

-Don B
Post 6 made on Wednesday February 16, 2005 at 16:36
ontariocraig
Long Time Member
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Posts:
September 2004
162
Yeah, still didnt get my SIR-TS160 upgraded yet. It just goes into a reboot cycle when tuned to WGRZ and WKBW. - eventually it'll do this all channels. Stupid copy protection flag.

I may try putting up a sat dish temporarily to try one last time and get it upgraded, - but then I have to buy a dish; I had it hooked up to a friends dish for a couple of weeks without success. -.

failing that I'll have to consider shipping it to SamsungUSA and deal with all the border hassles and shipping expenses that involves. (samsung wont ship to Canada, so I'll have to get a courier to accept it for me, then drive for two hours to pick it up)....Still, with all the expenses these options entail, If I have to drive a couple hours I may be better off just cutting my losses and buy a shiney new 451 while Im "south of the Border" (That doesnt mean Mexico !!:-)

For me it's just a second reciever I wanted to use on a regular TV, I have my SIR-T151 which is working great. I was able to update that using a PC Serial port.

I'll be intersted to hear of your results of 4228 in the attic, I may try an attic mounted 4228 after the Buffalo stations go full power. Right now I have a 4248 on the roof which works great - very reliable, even at 65 or so miles from the transmission towers. But not pretty.

Not much room in my attic for moving a 4248 around, so I'm thinking a 4228 may do the trick, but I dont want to try attic mounting until they're broadcasting at full power, likely to be sometime before that happens. I did have my 4248 in the attic briefly - I squeezed it in there, but coudnt get it in the direction I wanted - The result was that it picked up some of the available channels, but the reliability was....well, it wasnt.






On 02/16/05 10:29 ET, barlow said...
Craig,

Thanks for the feed back.

I am getting a Channel Master 4228 in the mail
today that I will install in the attic. I am hoping
it will receive PBS better. I plan to use it to
replace the small RCA tv top antenna with built
in amp.


I have the Square Shooter on the other side of
the attic where the signal is strongest for the
stations facing in that direction.

Maybe I could have just swapped the two existing
antennas around but I think I still would have
had trouble receiving Fox.

The bad news is that the Better half is home today
and when she see the antenna sitting on the front
porch I will probably not have a home to come
home to !!

You guys have some interesting dialogue going
on the Ontario Buffalo post paritcularly about
upgrading old Samsungs for compliance with the
new regs.

-Don B

-Don B
OP | Post 7 made on Thursday February 17, 2005 at 11:04
barlow
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2004
535
My 4228 arrived.

I got it off of Ebay supposedly unused. But... I find oxidation on the bow tie elements. Did not expect this for and antenna that was never mounted outside. The rest of the antenna looked brandnew including the black plastic pieces.

I guess any metal left exposed to air without a surface coating is going to oxidise. Maybe someone with a brandnew 4228 can tell me if theirs has slight oxidation. Or offer a quick way to clean it. Or does minimal oxidation even impact reception ??

I bought this off of ebay because the least expensive place I could find to purchase it previously was :

[Link: spectravox.com]

and they wanted $50.99 for the antenna plus a whopping $38.78 for shipping !!!

After paying about the same for this antenna on Ebay supposedly unused, and a heck of a lot less for shipping, I found in the shipping carton the receipt the PO paid for it with the company name which is:
outpost.com

[Link: shop2.outpost.com]

Outpost is asking $ 49.99 and only $11.88 for shipping.

I wish I had know about them before I bought this off of ebay. But maybe someone else can use this info or even suggest a better place to buy a 4228.

I still have to get a CM 7777 amp !!!!

By the way. I may not get a chance to hook up this antenna until next weekend.

-Don B
Post 8 made on Friday February 18, 2005 at 08:50
ontariocraig
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2004
162
As then Antennas are suitable for outdoor mounting, I wouldnt think a litle oxidization would matter - afterall If you were to mount it outside, It would become a whole lot more oxidized withing a few months. Even in your attic it will oxidize over time, though I imagine oxidization will be a much slower process. Anyway a little oxidization should not impact the performance

I bought my CM7777 from warrrenelectronics. (Unfortunately for me they no longer ship to Canada, but you wont run into that little problem) Check it out: http://www.warrenelectronics.com

$38 for shipping, what a rip off. I cant believe these people stay in business.



On 02/17/05 11:04 ET, barlow said...
My 4228 arrived.


I got it off of Ebay supposedly unused. But...
I find oxidation on the bow tie elements. Did
not expect this for and antenna that was never
mounted outside. The rest of the antenna looked
brandnew including the black plastic pieces.

I guess any metal left exposed to air without
a surface coating is going to oxidise. Maybe someone
with a brandnew 4228 can tell me if theirs has
slight oxidation. Or offer a quick way to clean
it. Or does minimal oxidation even impact reception
??

I bought this off of ebay because the least expensive
place I could find to purchase it previously was
:

[Link: spectravox.com]


and they wanted $50.99 for the antenna plus
a whopping $38.78 for shipping !!!

After paying about the same for this antenna on
Ebay supposedly unused, and a heck of a lot less
for shipping, I found in the shipping carton the
receipt the PO paid for it with the company name
which is:

outpost.com

[Link: shop2.outpost.com]

Outpost is asking $ 49.99 and only $11.88 for
shipping.

I wish I had know about them before I bought this
off of ebay. But maybe someone else can use this
info or even suggest a better place to buy a 4228.

I still have to get a CM 7777 amp !!!!

By the way. I may not get a chance to hook up
this antenna until next weekend.

-Don B
OP | Post 9 made on Friday February 18, 2005 at 11:05
barlow
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2004
535
ontariocraig,

Thanks for the info on http://www.warrenelectronics.com

They only want $57.93 for the Channel Master 7777 and it looks like no shipping charge on it.

I wrote outpost asking if they sell the 7777 yesterday and they have not got back to me.

Don
OP | Post 10 made on Monday February 21, 2005 at 10:40
barlow
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2004
535
Last night I did a channel search on my Samsung and it found PAX which I is not close to me.

Pax was using Simulcast and I got the following:
47.1 Pax
47.2 PAXWEST
47.3 Worship
47.4 Faith

I started thinking that PAX had finally installed a local repeater which was contrary to what they had told me in a Email a couple of weeks ago. But this morning it produced the infamous "No Signal" !

Oh well, yet one more carrot held out in front of me and I am already trying to get a strong signal with PBS which is proving a tough nut to crack with a attic mounted antenna.

The better half can not understand what I am up to at all.

It is a sickness I tell you a HD junkie sickness !!

-Don B
OP | Post 11 made on Wednesday March 9, 2005 at 12:59
barlow
Active Member
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Posts:
September 2004
535
HD junkie sickness continues:
I am in the process of swapping my two attic antennas "aka the antenna farm" around.

I now have the Square Shooter 2000 mounted permanently in the direction of Chapel Hill for PBS reception. Without doing final adjustment on the SS I get about a 8 for signal strength on my Samsung 451. I was getting a solid 10 with the 4228 antenna at this location.

My goal is to use the SS for PBS and the 4228 mounted towards the WRAL towers for most of the other local stations. I than want to hook the two antennas together with a diplexer so I can view them all without messing with an A/B switch.

Previously I tried a Diplexer with the antennas swapped, and experienced too much ghosting leading to drop outs in the digital signals.

I need a good compass for figuring direction. I would not make a good pigeon.

-Don B
OP | Post 12 made on Wednesday April 13, 2005 at 15:28
barlow
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2004
535
Last night "4/12/05" about 11pm I tried to watch PBS Digital channel 4 and got "No Signal".

This was weird as it has been very reliable for the last month or so.

I went up in the attic and found a cable slightly loose but still could not get signal downstairs.

I checked strength and had a solid 9 to 10.

I than flipped around to other channels and back to 4-1 and boom there was the picture.

Maybe due to rain I was having ghosting problems but it still was a surprise.

-Don B
OP | Post 13 made on Friday April 29, 2005 at 12:56
barlow
Active Member
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September 2004
535
Watched the following stations again 4/27/05 I was getting around 5 to 7 signal strength. There was some drop out but it was watchable. I put it on with PIP while I was using my computer . I had Pax on one of the pleasing music and slowly changing video simulcast. It worked good as background while I was concentrating on computer stuff.

I think they switch power levels because I can not always receive the station it being at least 50 miles away and me with attic mounted antennas.

Pax was using Simulcast and I got the following:
47.1 Pax
47.2 PAXWEST
47.3 Worship
47.4 Faith

I have yet to catch an episode of "Diagnosis Murder" of course when I do it won't be 16:9 format.

I would appreciate it if anyone else having HD in Raleigh area that they help keep this post going.

-Don
OP | Post 14 made on Tuesday May 10, 2005 at 14:16
barlow
Active Member
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535
5/10/05
Using just the 4228 with booster found most of the stations 5,50,17,22 and 28 to have porr reception this morning.

Will have to keep an eye on this as I don't see any changed in my hardware setup to have cased the weaker signals.

However, I do notice that everytime I think seriously about getting a HD display worthy of showing OTA HD. My antenna array always has to act up humbling me into doing more tweeking before dropping money on an expenisive HD tv.

-Don B
OP | Post 15 made on Wednesday May 11, 2005 at 14:47
barlow
Active Member
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September 2004
535
Still not receiving reliable reception from the 4228 facing towards the WRAL and other Raleigh HD transmitters. It appears like my antenna has moved or my amp is acting up.

Maybe the Spring Vegitation has finally impacted my reception.

Also I see Enterprise advertised as being simulcast in HD. I guess they mean on cable because I watched it last week on UPN-ATSC and it may have been digital but it didn't appear to be HD 16 by 9 digital.

-Don
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