Just recently I replaced a RCA powered table top antenna with a Winegard Square Shooter SS-2000 in my attic. With the RCA I was able to pull in all the stations that I expected including ones that were located 45 degrees or so from all the others. It was okay viewing with the RCA but PBS, UPN, and WB were weak signals and would drop out occasionly.

With the Winegard I was unable to even get a signal with 3 of the HD stations mentioned above and the PBS station which is 45 out from the other stations would barely lock on no matter how I oriented the Winegard.

I realise the Winegard is directional. Does this mean line of site directional ??

I thought maybe the external amp that comes with the 2000 was defective so I removed it and found that the signal got much worse so I assume it is doing something.

I am going to try a couple of more things before returning this antenna. I will replace the short coax cable between the antenna and the amp in hopes it was defective. And I will remove the plastic cover over the antenna in hopes that the plastic is occulting the signal but I don't have high hopes.

I can't see keeping a $100.00 antenna when a $25.00 RCA does better.

P.S. Please don't suggest I mount the antenna outside as the better half will not comply.

-Don B

pitch the amplifier that came with the Square shooter and use a Channel Master 7777.

Install the preamp in line in the attic. Install the amp behind the TV.

SkyBird,

Thanks for the suggestion.

I had reservations about the included amp which looks kind of small.


Not sure if I will have time to implement your idea before I return this antenna.

I took the plastic cover off the face of the 2000 and it improved the reception to about the same as my tv top amplified RCA antennae.

But it would be nice to try the Channel Master 7777- I wish I knew where they sold them locally in the Raleigh,NC area.

-Don B

Any TV service or Antenna store would have them

Lessons Learned:

The attic area that I have the antennas mounted in is on the side of the house where the peak comes together and luckily points in the direction of most of the digital transmitters.

A triangular shaped vent of about 4 ft on a side is located in this area. The screen covering the vent is made of plastic or fibreglass but at least is not a metal material.

I tried moving my RCA powered TV top antenna higher to the peak of the triangle thinking that height would gain me better reception. This did not help at all in fact I lost most of the signal.

It than dawned on me that by raising the antenna higher I was actually occulting the signal as the area of the vent "triangle" got smaller.

Once I realised what was happening I remounted the Square SHooter lower and now I can receive ABC,CBS,NBC,Fox and PBS all at the same time without messing with the antenna. I still can't pull in UPN and WB but I think I only received them with the Samsung SIR 351 which I returned and not the T100 which I still own.

I still plan on getting a Channel Master 7777 as mentioned above and am guessing it may just help with WB and UPN.

-Don B

There is EVERY likelihood that the outside finish of your house's wall has wire mesh in it....

Most of these antennas are highly directional in killing signals that they are 90 degrees from, but it is reasonable to expect them to pick up stations 45 degrees off axis.

Square Shooter 2000 lesson learned.
I had been wondering what the real difference between the non amplified 1000 and the amplified 2000 was short of the included amp that comes with the 2000.

Well I learned last night that what I thought was just a small included Winegard amp was actually just the power supply for the 2000. The (Amp/pre-amp) I am guessing is some how built into the internal workings of the 2000. This is not obvious when you look at the antenna and is not obvious from the small included manual.

In the manual it even goes as far as to say:
Note: A diplexer that is power passive on both sides may be used instead of the power supply. If using a diplexer, connect coax to diplexer secured on back of antenna with velcro(supplied).

Does anyone no what the above "Note:" means ? I am left wondering where the power to power the built in preamp comes from ??

I also wonder if I replace the external power supply with a Channel Master 7777 as mentioned above what will happen ? Will the internal preamp mess up the signal as it is not being powerd or will it just drop to a passive pass through state.

I may just write Winegard and ask them this question if no one else know the answer.

-Don B

That's called a "preamp", where the power supply and actual amplifier are separated.

I'm not exactly sure what they're saying about the diplexer line - but suspect that if your diplexer is "power passive" (or passes power) on *both* DSS and antenna outputs, then enough of the power inserted by the satellite receiver to power the dish's LNBs will be passed to the antenna to power its amp. Otherwise, if the diplexer only passes power on one side (to the dish) then you'll still need to put the antenna's power supply between the diplexer and antenna.

Daniel,

Interesting, I bet that is what Winegard is talking about. Do you think I would have a problem removing the "power supply" and replacing it with a 7777 Channel Master to get higher DB gain and sensitivity?

I am concerned that the Preamp may not be happy.

For now I am going to keep using the Square Shooter as is since I have other related antenna reception problems to resolve like diplexing both my antennas.

-Don B

I finally wrote Winegard and they told me I have to use the included power supply of course that does not mean I can't use a 7777 after the power supply.

My Question:
Can I replace the power supply that comes with the Square Shooter 2000 with a more sensitive higher db ampifier or will the Square Shooters internal preamp cause problems ?


Winegards answer:
The power supply is just that and has to be used. It is not an amplifier. The amplifier is inside the antenna head which is powered by the power supply. An amplifier does not allow the elements to collect more signal. It takes what signal you have and amplifies it so it overcomes the losses that are present in the transmission line between the amplifier and the TV set. To get more signal you can either raise the antenna or use a larger one. If you are operating several TV sets and have long coax runs then you can use a distrbution amp. The amount of loss can be calculated by a professional installer. The SS-2000 has a gain of approx. 15 db. 100 feet of RG-59 will have apprx 6db of loss and each connector will have about 1 db loss while a good quality splitter will have aroud 3 db loss. The ideal situation is that the preamp will be robust enough to give you unity gain at the tv set. Any thing from 0 to -10 is adequate. Unity gain means that for a 15 db amp you will have 15 db of loss to the TV set.

Very interesting. I have the Square Shooter SS-2000 installed on my roof. And the power supply is in a box in the basement. I get every channel antenna.org said I would. Why is that.

Guys, it works like this.

An amplifier will NOT increase the signal the antenna receives, it will only increase that which the antenna has already received. That's what Winegard is saying.

Simple matter with antenna's. You want more signal? Get a LARGER antenna that has more area or move your antenna to a higher location (the right way).

With antenna's elevation is what it's all about. Higher elevation, higher signal level.

And by the way. Inside the attic causes approximately 45% signal LOSS, so if you want a signal increase, move the antenna to the outside.

Trunk-Slammer -Supreme,

What I was trying to find out from Winegard was "Will the internal preamp
cause problems if I instead use a Channel Master 7777 as suggested
above" as opposed to not using the Winegard including power supply which would than leave the built in preamp unpowered.

Or as bookaroni pointed out will the preamp if unpowered occult
the signal in any way.

It looks like leaving the Preamp unpowered is okay and it will just act
as a pass through when unpowered. I was afraid it would also introduce a
"db loss" when unpowered.

As one installer on this forum suggested for helping find a good
signal.The key is putting your HD tuner and display on the roof or in the
attic with you. In this condition I am sure I would see I don't need a
booster.

But the reality is I have the tuner in the room with the monitor and have
loss thru cable runs which require boost to compensate. I am sure I
could get a much larger antenna and POff the better half as well as the
home owners association by putting it on the roof. But I don't have that
option. So I am limited to what I can fit in the attic near the vents.

-Don B

Check out the winegard sensar III gs-2200, I installed one today and was the best antenna I have ever seen. My local stations average 48 miles from me and for the first time all channels came in hi def. I looks pretty cool on the roof too.

I'm curious, I just looked up the sensar III on winegards website, Is this supposed to be that much better than the SS2000. It looks to be comparble. I just put up a SS2000 in the winter and could get some HDTV but now that the trees have bloomed I've lost 3 stations. I'm wondering if this would be the fix for it? I'm also looking for opinions here. I live 30+ miles from the HD signal but unfortunatly I live in a bowl so catching the signal isn't the easiest thing. Especially since Denver sucks for broadcasting it. Anyways just looking for an opinion if someone thinks this would be better than the SS2000?