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Is it wise to use another learning remote as backup for rare IR codes?
This thread has 6 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Monday November 5, 2012 at 11:32
roberta23
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How exact digital copies are IR codes saved into new learning remote?

Is there any code degradation, if such a learning remote is used as master to program new remote controller?

Should we keep the original remote what ever it costs or is it enough to create button copies in some cheaper remote with learning function?

Or when in a remote site an IR code has to be transferred to a new unit, is it enough to take copy from copied remote and ship it by post?
That means a copy of a copy will be used as remote master for programming.

Of course, most obvious response is just to check it out but what do you think, is this method reliable to be considered as IR code backup option?
Post 2 made on Monday November 5, 2012 at 23:19
3FG
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Learned IR signals are generally not accurate representations of an IR signal.  In fact even the OEM remote is unlikely to be very accurate-- it is cheaper to use components that will provide a remote that works most of the time.

IR signals are just patterns of light flashes, and the pattern is quite systematic. For example Samsung TVs use an IR protocol usually referred to NECx2.  The protocol was defined by NEC of Japan, and they sold chips and licenses to use this protocol.  When a remote sends this signal, it will typically distort the time durations somewhat.  But the TV will still recognize the signal.  If that signal is taught to another remote, the duratons will become more distorted, so with each generation of copies, it becomes more likely that the TV will not recognize the copied IR signal.

However, there are two ways to avoid making copies of learned signals.
1) A learned signal, if it is available to a computer, can be easily decoded.  Subsequently, one can simply supply the decoded signal (e.g. NECx2, device 7.7, function 194 is HDMI3 in a Samsung TV).  Or, even without decoding, one can save the learned signal in Pronto Hex, or Global Cache or LIRT, etc format, and subsequently download that to a new remote.

2) Generally speaking, somebody else has already  experimented to find unpublished discrete codes, and decoded the signals or  recorded them in one of the standard formats.  These get posted here or at hifi-remote.com, and then the rest of us have access.

I don't know about the Prestigo remotes, and what may be required to upload indivdual codes to the remote.  I suppose that there is a way.  I myself (along with lots of folks who hang out at hifi-remote.com/forums) use remotes made by UEI-- for example OneForAll brands.  We buy or make a interface to a 6 pin connector in the remote and upload/download signals.  It isn't even necessary to use a computer interface if the signal in question is from a large manufacturer.  You can manually program a 5 digit number onto a button to get your Samsung HDMI signal.  Here in the USA, people frequently use cable TV remotes with manual programming to control Samsung or other major brand TVs, including signals not included on the OEM remote.

OneForAll makes Xsight Lite and Plus remotes that have a built in USB interface, and you can use the RMIR software to upload/download from those without needing to make/buy an interface cable.
OP | Post 3 made on Wednesday November 7, 2012 at 03:31
roberta23
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A great overview, thanks.
Appears that remotes use the same cheaper to manufacturer likelyhood as hard disks nowadays. The last actually may be sometimes far more dramatical to user. Earlier remote signals were digital words from serial digital impulses, which with recovery code could be easily replicated errorless.

I understand that Pronto manufacturing has ended on 2010 and as such doesn't have long perspective. Also pronto remotes were too expensive just to archive some codes.

I googled a lot unsuccessfully until I joined this forum and from your reply I feel there still is something I have missed.
1. Are there simple remotes capable to learn and accept single button code by entering pressing button certain number of times? (Instead IR->IR)
2. Are there such codes available for Samsung TV discreet input function? Perhaps a year ago ... but my search was the unsuccessful, until I happily noticed that one Samsung PC monitor/TV had direct HDMI button on remote.

As my goal is to find most easy to use remote solutions (even in darkness) and not to control as many equipment as possible, this one button is of great importance to me. :-)

An there is still part of your reply I have to study - OneForAll Xsight series.
Do these moderately priced learn IR and transfer signals to PC and Vice versa?

Thanks!
Post 4 made on Thursday November 8, 2012 at 02:13
3FG
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1. Are there simple remotes capable to learn and accept single button code by entering pressing button certain number of times? (Instead IR->IR)
Yes, most OneForAll remotes can modified in the following way:  
A.  Assign a Samsung TV setup code to the TV button.  For example 0618 or 0702.
B. Then, Press Setup (or Magic) until 2 blinks
C.  Enter 994  (2 blinks)
D. Tap Setup
E.  Enter 00081 
F.  Tap a button of your choosing (e.g.  PIP CH+) 
The remote will blink twice, and now  PIP Ch+ will send the discrete signal to switch the TV input to HDMI1.  In step E, use 00030 for HDMI2, 00175 for HDMI3, and 00176 for HDMI4.


2. Are there such codes available for Samsung TV discreet input function? Perhaps a year ago ... but my search was the unsuccessful, until I happily noticed that one Samsung PC monitor/TV had direct HDMI button on remote.

The search function on this website shows this post for Samsung TV IR codes.  In general, you need to use RemoteMaster software to convert function numbers into the 5 digit code used step E above, but Post 65 of the linked thread lists most of the possibilities.

If you decide to try one of these remotes, post back the model you're thinking of and I'll probably be able to tell you if it is suitable.   Samsung is easy because it is a major brand.  The 5 digit code only affects the function number, but the remote already needs to have a setup code with the correct IR protocol and device numbers built in.  Of course this will be the case for major brands.
OP | Post 5 made on Friday November 9, 2012 at 08:10
roberta23
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Yes, thanks.
I have spent several hours googling RMIR and Xsight, in order to find a confirmation, if I understood correctly that XSight Lite and Plus support RMIR through USB cable directly. And I'm suprised how difficult it's to find any info about both.
Rmir website doesn't seem to know about existence of Xsight neither JP1 panel.
While price difference between Plus and Light model in Amazon isn't big, I believe Lite version is sufficient. If only difference is amount of supported devices.
Thanks!

PS Edit - Do both version have backlight mentioned in user manual?
Amazon description only Plus has backlight.

Last edited by roberta23 on November 9, 2012 08:37.
Post 6 made on Friday November 9, 2012 at 11:29
3FG
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According to OneForAll, the Lite doesn't have a backlight.  However, with RMIR, I believe you can access 12 devices--the underlying microprocessor, buttons, etc. are actually the same as the Plus.

The primary developer of RMIR has a Xsight Lite, and an alpha version of RMIR supports it.  I have the USA equivalent of the Plus, and RMIR works fine with it.
Post 7 made on Wednesday October 21, 2020 at 08:54
Claudebeck
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October 2020
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Is it wise to use another learning remote as backup for rare IR codes? IR codes creating write my papers which is a seprate place where we are trying to show you more of those places and it will be just perfect to achieve for students. Backup learning material is also necessary for students.


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