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Zune on RF
This thread has 7 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Friday March 23, 2007 at 00:24
DanKurts
Founding Member
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175
Having a wierd problem with Zune codes over RF extender. Extender goes through Xantech 791 block. Have 6 other devices, all work fine with RF. Copied a device that was working on RF, checked RF settings, relearned buttons with Zune remote codes. No go. Switch the zune device to IR, works fine. Even hooked a Xantech 291-90 IR receiver through the 791, works fine. Switched back to RF, nothing. Light on extender blinks when zune codes sent. Have properties on zune device set for Denon receiver's vol/mute, and they work on RF or IR, when on zune device/page.
Okay. So went to my Cable device, which works fine on RF, picked a page, set a new button, learned zune code, reloaded 7000, no go. Everything else on that page works fine. If I switch cable device to IR, new zune button works. Seems to have no problem learning zune remote.
Arrrgghhh!
For testing problem I'm using the play/pause code. All the other learned codes work fine on IR, too. Here's the code for play/pause

0000 006E 0000 0021 0064 0022 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0022 0010 0022 0033 0022 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0022 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0010 0022 0010 0010 0022 0022 0010 0010 0010 0010 0022 0010 0010 0022 0022 0010 0010 0010 0010 0022 0010 0A3A

Any ideas greatly appreciated, trying to finish up a big install this week.
Thanks
Dan
Post 2 made on Friday March 23, 2007 at 15:41
Ernie Bornn-Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
Joined:
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December 2001
30,104
What's a 291-90? It's not on the Xantech web site.

Try a couple of other codes to see if perhaps there's just something weird with this command.

Oh, the Zune remote can output Denon commands that work?

Try learning any code twice, carefully holding the button down the same amount of time, and compare the codes. You might have toggle codes, although with toggle codes you would get confusing sometime operation but no repeat operation.

That's all I can think of for this.

Thanks for posting in the installer's forum and here, and putting a note over there about it. Less confusion is good about where a thread is.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 3 made on Friday March 23, 2007 at 16:23
johnsfine
IR Expert
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September 2002
5,159
On March 23, 2007 at 15:41, Ernie Bornn-Gilman said...
Try learning any code twice, carefully holding the button
down the same amount of time, and compare the codes.
You might have toggle codes, although with toggle codes
you would get confusing sometime operation but no repeat
operation.

It is an MCE signal, so it almost certainly has a toggle bit. With or without a toggle bit, two learns of the same button are likely to look different enough that a non expert wouldn't be able to tell whether they are really the same.

I was trying to understand the symptom description well enough to guess whether a toggle bit problem could explain it. I can't understand well enough what was tested and observed, but it doesn't seem like a toggle bit problem would explain it.

The only symptom of a toggle bit problem should be that a learned signal won't work twice in a row. So you shouldn't be able to get play/pause to work again IR or RF after using it once, until you've used some other command. Once you've used any other command, play/pause should again work once IR or RF.

I don't see how that could make it seem that IR works and RF doesn't.
OP | Post 4 made on Friday March 23, 2007 at 18:08
DanKurts
Founding Member
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Posts:
June 2001
175
John & Ernie

Thanks for the reply, and sorry it was a confusing explanation. 16hr days kinda leave you goofy, and I had been dogging this for a few hours at the end.

The 291-90 is the plasma friendly IR receiver used with Xantech products. I used it with the 791-44 because I wanted to test out the Xantech repeater portion with the Zune codes. On this install, the RF6500 extender is the normal feed for the 791.
The codes work multiple times on IR, either directly at the Zune dock or through the 291 and 791, exactly as any learned code duplicating the original remote. I even downloaded the only Zune ccf from the files section here, and it behaves the same.
The Denon amp volume/mute is linked through the properties for the Zune device, and whether the 7000 is set for RF or IR, it works on the Zune page.

All the Cable pages work fine through RF. So, to test further, I created a new button on one of the Cable device pages, learned code to it, and tried that. Same thing, works fine IR, not RF, yet all Cable functions still work fine, either way. And the Denon amp vol/mute buttons, which are linked as well there, still work.

Everything (two receivers, DVD, TV, DVD changer, and more), except the codes for the Zune, work RF.
I've made the usual mistakes of not setting the RF right, or forgetting the original codes for a link need to be set to RF as well, but all that is set correctly. The Zune only has one page, with the codes learned on the buttons.

The only thing I can imagine is somehow the codes are getting corrupted in RF mode. In IR mode, because all works, it can't be the blaster is to close/far or something wierd like the new ultra sensitive Direct boxes.

A real head scratcher, and I'm trying to save what little hair is left up there!

Thanks for taking the time to comment.

Dan
Post 5 made on Sunday March 25, 2007 at 11:47
Mitch Engleman
Founding Member
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Posts:
August 2001
224
Dan,

Perhaps the blaster is too strong for the Zune.

I just had the same problem (IR was perfect, RF wouldn't work to desired device but would work to other devices).

It turned out that I had to move the blaster back from the IR receiver of the Marantz CD jukebox and then everything worked fine. I have seen this before (I don't remember what piece of equipment that was).

I hope that helps.

Mitch
Post 6 made on Sunday March 25, 2007 at 12:53
Lyndel McGee
RC Moderator
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August 2001
12,992
The other device, IFIRC, was a cable box. I noticed that the 791-44 was in use. What is the jumper set for on the particular output? High or low? If high, try low. If low, try a removing the IR emitter from the zune or changing distance as has been suggested.
Lyndel McGee
Philips Pronto Addict/Beta Tester
OP | Post 7 made on Sunday March 25, 2007 at 15:47
DanKurts
Founding Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2001
175
Thanks Mitch and Lyndel
I thought about the IR being too strong, initially, having had multiple go-rounds with the ridiculous new Direct boxes. Just did a call back on one yesterday. Had to position the blaster 2" away from the IR receiver on the front. Stuck right on the metal front. Worked okay, but when the customer closed the doors to the cabinet, it over reacted. Finally positoned it on the top! Waaaaayyyyy too sensitve.
In any case, I did play with that a little. I even bypassed the 791 and plugged the blaster into the RF6500. same thing. 791's come from the factory set for low, BTW. I did move the blaster around some, didn't seem to help. If moved more than a few inches away, the Zune stopped responding to on IR, so assumed it was not overly sensitive. I'll mess around with it some more Monday. But hey, I'll try painting the toilet green if the thing starts working!
I also have another Zune dock in the basement theater, and the two are going to be connected by wireless via Pronto, different RF settings. Setup already work on all other devices.
Curious if anyone else has a Zune on RF.
Thanks again, for the ideas, gentlemen!
Dan
OP | Post 8 made on Monday March 26, 2007 at 14:36
DanKurts
Founding Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2001
175
Dudes!
Found the problem!!
I was using the original Pronto IR blasters the RF6500 came with. At the time It was all I had, all out of Xantech 282's. Stopped by the warehouse and got some more, swapped it, BOOM! Works fine, all commands. Plugged the other one back in, no work.
Who woulda thunk!?!? Anything's possible...... File this one away for other intermittents, too.
Thanks again guys.
Dan


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