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Topic:
Need RC5 System & Command based on these timings
This thread has 17 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Sunday April 13, 2003 at 02:42
Lyndel McGee
RC Moderator
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I am using a Streamzap remote to control a PC media player. However, I've learned the RC5 codes on an RC9200 but they don't show up as RC5 but rather the normal Pronto Learned format. My preference would be to know the actual System/Command that is required to generate the command. Why? I'd rather have clean RC5 codes than potentially unclean learned codes.

I've picked up the information below off a website and was wondering if someone could translate the timings into a valid RC5 System/Command code that I could enter in TSS/PE.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Lyndel

# brand: streamzap
# model no. of remote control:
# devices being controlled by this remote:
#

begin remote
name streamzap
bits 6
flags RC5
eps 0
aeps 300

one 768 768
zero 768 768
plead 768
pre_data_bits 8
pre_data 0xA3
gap 65280
toggle_bit 2


begin codes
0 0x00 (NOTE: RC5000i learned code below)
1 0x01
2 0x02
3 0x03
4 0x04
5 0x05
6 0x06
7 0x07
8 0x08
9 0x09
Power 0x0A
Mute 0x0B
ChUp 0x0C
VolUp 0x0D
ChDown 0x0E
VolDown 0x0F
Up 0x10
Left 0x11
OK 0x12
Right 0x13
Down 0x14
Menu 0x15
Exit 0x16
Play 0x17
Pause 0x18
Stop 0x19
TrackPrev 0x1A
TrackNext 0x1B
Record 0x1C
SeekBack 0x1D
SeekFw 0x1E
Red 0x20
Green 0x21
Yellow 0x22
Blue 0x23
end codes

end remote


Learned Code for Keypad button '0' is as follows:

0000 006d 0000 000c 0020 0020 0040 0040 0040 0020 0020 0020 0020 0040 0020 0020 0040 0020 0020 0020 0020 0020 0020 0020 0020 0020 0020 0c93


This message was edited by Lyndel McGee on 04/13/03 03:42.
Lyndel McGee
Philips Pronto Addict/Beta Tester
Post 2 made on Sunday April 13, 2003 at 15:46
Eigeny Oulianov
Founding Member
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238
The Learned code at the message end is NOT a RC5 code. It consist redundant bit #3. Other code is "system=5 code=0"

So, the value at "codes" section is "code", but the "system" is 5.

Real odd RC5 code for button "0" is
0000 0073 0000 000b 0020 0020 0040 0020 0020 0020 0020 0040 0040 0040 0040 0020 0020 0020 0020 0020 0020 0020 0020 0020 0020 0ce0

You could use M.Majoor's tool "RC5pronto" [Link: home.hccnet.nl] to convert 5000-codes into 0000 form

I think it is a bug of Streamzap...
OP | Post 3 made on Sunday April 13, 2003 at 16:14
Lyndel McGee
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Eigeny,

OK, I go into TSS and create an RC5 code with System=5, Command=0 and the Streamzap does not pick it up. The learned code above works just fine. I don't know what the difference is unless Streamzap has some timing things. Last night, with the RC5000i connected to the PC, I tried all 32 System values (0x00 to 0x1f) to no avail. I repeated this exercise today with the same results. Streamzap does not pick up the Pronto RC5 codes explicitly set in TSS. However, the Marantz is successfully able to reproduce the learned IR sequence that works with Streamzap. Any other suggestions?

At 2:30 this morning, I did not feel like trying to deciper the thing. Yes, I did see the M.Majoor tool but did not download it because I was attempting to go from Pronto to RC5. Not the other way around. I can learn the streamzap codes but I wanted to know what the true RC5 system was.

Lyndel

This message was edited by Lyndel McGee on 04/13/03 16:23.
Lyndel McGee
Philips Pronto Addict/Beta Tester
Post 4 made on Sunday April 13, 2003 at 16:46
star50fiveoh
Super Member
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RC5.....good!                                                               Learned.....Not Good.
Post 5 made on Sunday April 13, 2003 at 17:23
johnsfine
IR Expert
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Lyndel,

The Streamzap protocol is similar to RC5, but isn't the same as RC5. I'm pretty sure there is no way to represent Streamzap signals in the "5000" form of "clean" RC5 signals.

Your learned signal above is clean in the sense that it has no timing glitches or extra pulses or other problems common to dirty learns. The Streamzap protocol does have a toggle bit, which in the learned for will never toggle. I'm not sure how much of a problem that will be.

There are ways to represent signals other than RC5 which include toggle bits. I don't know enough about them to tell you whether or how they might encode Streamzap.

I do have details on the structure of the Streamzap protocol, so my newer version of ccf2efc (in the JP1-KM group) decodes it, and I could make a control file for MakeHex to generate Pronto Hex for it (which still wouldn't do anything for the toggle bit).
Post 6 made on Monday April 14, 2003 at 01:06
Eigeny Oulianov
Founding Member
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Posts:
October 2001
238
If it is not RC5, but with 0020 -0020 timings and toggle it could not be supported directly.

If it is RC5 nevertheless, try also system=3 and 6

You need to check how receiver uses toggle bit: learn command "1" and try to choose "11" via this learned code. If it works, it ignores toggle, and you can use learned commands simple, directly without "careful" RC5 learning.

In other way you need to learn all odd and all even presses (in 0000-form), place them onto two same pages and flips from one (odd page) to another (even page) on any button press!

This message was edited by Eigeny Oulianov on 04/14/03 03:16.
Post 7 made on Monday April 14, 2003 at 11:28
johnsfine
IR Expert
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5,159
On 04/13/03 15:46, Eigeny Oulianov said...
The Learned code at the message end is NOT a RC5
code. It consist redundant bit #3.

I don't know what you mean by "redundant bit #3". The Streamzap protocol is just like RC5, except it has one extra bit used to encode "system". RC5 has 5 system bits. Streamzap has 6.

Other code is "system=5 code=0"

This signal is system=35.

I think that a 5000 form with 0023 as the system would NOT work, but I'm not completely certain of that (0023 is hex for 35).

You could use M.Majoor's tool "RC5pronto"
[Link: home.hccnet.nl]

I found the link there to a PDF you wrote explaining Pronto Hex formats.
[Link: home.hccnet.nl]
I can't follow all of it, but I learned a few things about 7000 and 9000 formats that I hadn't known before. Thank you for that pdf.

I think it is a bug of Streamzap...

I think it is not a bug. I think they wanted to differ from the 32 system numbers available in RC5.

I saw the second table in your pdf, listing the IR bursts used in 7000 type formats. I assume most of the first table information on specific dID's is for learning and not used in generating the signal.

You show the RC5 timing bursts labeled T? and t in that table but don't show the dID. If I understand your later post here, there is no dID for using those in the 7000 form.

Are there limit checks on the 0000 to 000F values used as indexes into those tables? If not then using the dID of the next earlier table might be a way to reach the RC5 timing in a 7000 code, where if I understand correctly you have direct control over the number of bits to be encoded.
Post 8 made on Monday April 14, 2003 at 12:26
Eigeny Oulianov
Founding Member
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Posts:
October 2001
238
Completely agree about Streamzap. I have been confused by "flags RC5" string... "redundant bit #3" is msb of 6-bits "system" (32+3=35:)

"I assume most of the first table information on specific dID's is for learning and not used in generating the signal."
Agree. Replay routines not use most of that tables, but I uses it to describe formats

"You show the RC5 timing bursts labeled T? "
RC5 has dID=00. There are only 3 rows at second table - about "0", "1" and "R"

"there is no dID for using those in the 7000 form"
dID presents at 7000 form directly as wSubFmtID

"using the dID of the next earlier table might be a way to reach the RC5 timing in a 7000 code"
Yes! I can set wSubFmtID=0 to use RC5 timings! You - genie! Letís try.
Post 9 made on Monday April 14, 2003 at 13:26
johnsfine
IR Expert
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On 04/14/03 12:26, Eigeny Oulianov said...
Letís try.

I assume "let's try" means YOU are going to try. I think you just filled in enough details for me that I now know how to make 7000 format codes for Streamzap that would probably work. However, I don't have a Pronto. I'm pretty sure we haven't given enough detail here for Lyndel to do it himself.

I assume you don't have PC media player to use to test whether you got it right. If you have two Pronto's to learn the signal from one to the other, or any similar way of capturing the signal, you may want to get the improved CCF2EFC and/or IRTOOL programs from the Yahoo JP1-KM group. Those will tell you whether the captured signal is correct Streamzap more easily than hand decoding it.

I guess I could post the 7000 code here and Lyndel could test whether it works. But in case of any error, there would be nothing to guide correction of the error, just binary works/not_works. If someone learns it from a Pronto to another remote then you can see exactly what you get and fine tune the result.
Post 10 made on Monday April 14, 2003 at 17:08
star50fiveoh
Super Member
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Posts:
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4,016
johnsfine


could you provide some sort of easy way to get to "the Yahoo JP1-KM" group?

LIKE A LINK .....(maybe??!!)

not everyone is a yahooligan, ya know.


i use yahoo! almost exclusively for my email, but don't use anything else yahoo!ic.
i looked around on the yahoo! main page and could find nothing about 'yahoo! groups'.

maybe a link to the main "yahoo! groups page" (if there is such a thing) would help us

quasi-yahoo!iphobes.


isn't it amazing?

how much time you can waste "refining" your post
when the site is having problems??!!
Post 11 made on Monday April 14, 2003 at 19:32
johnsfine
IR Expert
Joined:
Posts:
September 2002
5,159
[Link: groups.yahoo.com]

I assume the above link will get a non member of the group to a different page than a member gets. It should be obvious and easy to join from that point.

If you want access to the files and don't want messages emailed to you, be sure to select the option (somewhere in the join new group form) that says you want to read messages via web rather than email.

I also assume it's easy to quit the group after getting the files, if the files were all you were after, but we do update the files from time to time and it's a good place to ask IR protocol questions if you have any.
OP | Post 12 made on Monday April 14, 2003 at 23:24
Lyndel McGee
RC Moderator
Joined:
Posts:
August 2001
12,221
Someone shoot me the 7000 series and I'll test it with either the RC5000i or the RC9200. I will then report back. If you could, send me the 7000 code for Keypad '1' (0x01) as indicated in the original table.

Ideally, you guys know if the program above will translate between the 7000 series codes? I'd like to use it to generate 7000 codes for each and every Streamzap button.


Lyndel

This message was edited by Lyndel McGee on 04/14/03 23:30.
Lyndel McGee
Philips Pronto Addict/Beta Tester
Post 13 made on Tuesday April 15, 2003 at 05:53
Eigeny Oulianov
Founding Member
Joined:
Posts:
October 2001
238
It looks like it works!
"0":
7000 0000 0000 000A 0000 0011 0010 0002 0002 001B 0002 0001 0001 0001 0002 0002 0001 0001 0001 0001 0001 0001 0000 0000

2 Lyndel McGee:
I have sent complete ccf e-mail at your profile. I hope, it work

2 star50fiveoh:
Brief guide of Internet search
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1. Open your preferred HTTP mail server (yahoo.com)
2. Enter to "Search the Web:" field what you want to search (yahoo groups)
3. Click "Search"
4. Approximately first found result is what you want - click it to jump to groups.yahoo.com
5. Enter group you want to locate (jp1-km)
6. Hit "search"
7. Hit "jp1-km" at list
8. Join to group to access "Files" folder
9. Choose "Files", "C++" and download "ccf2efc_jsf_version.zip"
10. Congratulations: now, you is 96th happy possessor of this cunning tool!



This message was edited by Eigeny Oulianov on 04/15/03 06:24.
Post 14 made on Tuesday April 15, 2003 at 06:52
johnsfine
IR Expert
Joined:
Posts:
September 2002
5,159
On 04/15/03 05:53, Eigeny Oulianov said...
It looks like it works!
"0":
7000 0000 0000 000A 0000 0011 0010 0002 0002 001B
0002 0001 0001 0001 0002 0002 0001 0001 0001 0001
0001 0001 0000 0000

Glad to hear it. I guess I still don't understand enough to create these. I don't understand the 0011 or the 001B. I thought values over 0010 were toggles and it subtracted 0013 or 0014 to get the value. I expected 0015 where the 001B is and nothing where the 0011 is.

9. Choose "Files", "C++" and download "ccf2efc_jsf_version.zip"

Remember that you need to get the decoder DLL as well. Without the decoder DLL, this version of ccf2efc does just the same decoding as the older version.
OP | Post 15 made on Tuesday April 15, 2003 at 12:47
Lyndel McGee
RC Moderator
Joined:
Posts:
August 2001
12,221
Eigeny,

I started to try to build the 7000 code last evening based on the posts above and boy was I ever wrong.

I received the email and looked at the individual codes. I'm sure glad I did not invest 2-3 hours as I was searching for a needle in a haystack with my test code. I will test your codes tonight and post the results. Thanks for your assistance.

Lyndel
Lyndel McGee
Philips Pronto Addict/Beta Tester
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