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Just about to write to ntl director, can someone tell me why I shouldn't just buy a OneForAll Mosaic to solve the Pronto/ntl problem
This thread has 13 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Friday July 13, 2001 at 06:52
christopher
Historic Forum Post
I have been reading and contributing to the threads regarding the fact that the Pronto cannot communicate with the Pace 1000 / 2000 Digital Cable boxes and I have been speaking with people at ntl / Pace to try to establish a solution.

I am now just about to write to the Managing Director of ntl UK (Stephen Carter) to ask him to provide a software/hardware solution. In the letter I have stated that there are three solutions available to Pronto users.
1) Purchase the TiVo and control the Pace box 'through' the TiVo
2) Change Digital TV suppliers to Sky or OnDigital
3) Purchase the inferior OneForAll Mosaic

I have read the reviews and the OneForAll seems quite basic compared to the Pronto - but is it? Pre-empting his response, why shouldn’t we simply sell the Pronto and by the Mosaic to solve the compatibility problem?

Also, are there any other solutions that I have not yet heard of?

Thanks in advance,
C

PS> I will post a copy of the letter to this forum to invite your comments/corrections prior to sending.
OP | Post 2 made on Friday July 13, 2001 at 09:32
Craig Barnes
Historic Forum Post
Don't waste your time, in my experience of NTL they will tell you to go screw yourself. I spent a good 20 minutes trying to explain to NTL csutomer services what a pronto was and they still had no idea. They just kept harping on saying they supplied a free digital remote control that was perfectly acceptable.

In the end I told them that I was cancelling my analogue subscription and not moving to digital plus, instead it will be ITV-digital or SKY.

They are a bunch of losers, but Cobbled and Worthless were the same and so were Nynex before that.

Craig
OP | Post 3 made on Friday July 13, 2001 at 11:16
Dustin
Historic Forum Post
I have digital cable, and it sucks compared to any dish solution you can get. Plus the hardware is manufactured by a big electronics manufacturer like Sony, RCA or JVC, all companies who make mid-range Hi-Fi equipment, whereas the boxes that Digital Cable comapnies use like Jarrold, Scientific Atlanta etc, look and perform more like a science fair project assembled in someone's garage. I'd say that's reason enough to leave digital cable. Are you prohibited from using a dish in your area?
OP | Post 4 made on Friday July 13, 2001 at 12:57
christopher
Historic Forum Post
Steady on guys - you obviously have had no joy from ntl / C&W et al in the past. I take your comments on board.

However, although I am aware that Sky / ONdigital etc etc are far far better in both customer services, advanced technologies, speed of electronic programming guides etc. but for me, and many others, it is easier and cheaper [with the phone package] to stay with ntl rather than change to another digital supplier - (I may change if I get no joy from the MD tho'). If ntl 'can' produce the necessary gizmo to allow pronto to control their box then I will be happy(ier)

With regard to spending hours on the phone talking to customer services reps who don't understand our plight. Yes, this is annoying, but they are probably not IT/IR geeks who spend hours looking at web pages about $700 remote control. By writing to the man at the top (hopefully) he will pass the letter on to someone who *can* make a difference.

So, just in case, just maybe, the MD authorise some research and development in this area, has anyone any suggestions. ?????? - C
OP | Post 5 made on Friday July 13, 2001 at 13:04
Trevor
Historic Forum Post
I'm sure others will provide more feedback on the pronto vs Mosaic although I think you have answered your own question.

A couple of comments on your list of points first (the comments especially 1) are based on receiving the specified response from the recipient of the letter and not your listing them in the message)

1) Why should I have to spend £300+ for the privilege of controlling the STB from a pronto
2) Some people are not able to receive ondigital or fit a dish to their property. I'd be surprised if the recipient would make this suggestion anyway)
3) Does it actually support the pace IRDA box it does not mention it specifically on their web site.

Ok now on to my comments

1) I would have thought NTL/Pace can create an updated firmware for the STB that will accept IR as well as IRDA commands, I can't believe this would be a big job as pace normally use IR for most of their other boxes and so big chunks of the code should already exist. This would be the best, as updates would be automatically be sent to the existing STBs. If they are implementing this then they should be asked to provide IR for as many functions as possible, only omitting those where there is a *real* need for the two-way comms that is provided by the IRDA.

2) I was hoping to work with a small company that think they could create a small converter box to receive IR from the pronto and send IRDA out. I don't know for certain if this will actually happen at this stage or even if it can made cheaply.

If we know that something like my point 1 will definitely be done in the future (which I would say is the best solution) then there is no point in me progressing point 2 so I hope we get something useful out of the letter.

You may want to contact www.letsautomate.com to get a feel for the number of people they think want this functionality as providing some kind of numbers may be helpful as you could extrapolate possible numbers across NTLs area.

Trevor

P.S. In response to the two previous replies I would say that yes the quality is not as good (based on comments from people over the months) as I don't know anyone with sky. The reason I use it is I get poor reception of C4 and C5 (not sure that this is such a loss) but don't want to subscribe to additional channels so for £5 a month I get better quality versions of the terrestrial channels and of course the gripping QVC/Shop channels ;-)
OP | Post 6 made on Friday July 13, 2001 at 13:23
kabster
Historic Forum Post
Hey pronto people in u.k. You may have allready thought of this but why not use an all for one to program the pronto ? or a sl9000 ? thats what i do for nec because the pronto doesnt like nec's component remotes .
Kevin
www.automatedhomes.tv
OP | Post 7 made on Friday July 13, 2001 at 13:37
Anthony
Historic Forum Post
Kabster:
IRDA is the IR protocol used for PC IR communication. IT is a very fast protocol (very short bursts) since they need to pass a lot of data fast. Because of the shortness of on/offs it is also more susceptible to blinding (that is one of the reasons most IRDA emitters are weak (like the ones on Palm). The Pronto cannot handle this. Your problem with NEC is totally different. I had some trouble teaching the NEC also, and all my codes (some times I needed to try a few times) were all extremely dirty)
OP | Post 8 made on Friday July 13, 2001 at 13:41
Trevor
Historic Forum Post
Kabster,
The problem is that some of the NTL/Pace STBs use IRDA which is a different standard of IR to normal remotes and can't be learnt by the pronto (i think your suggestion has been tried but without success). From reading a number of threads it may be possible to hand code something that may work, I don't know if anyone has tried this and failed. I would like to try this but don't have the time at the moment.

Trevor
OP | Post 9 made on Friday July 13, 2001 at 13:44
Trevor
Historic Forum Post
Anthony
It seems I am a bit slow at replying, people keep getting msgs in front of me, now where did I put that touch typing course ;-)
T
OP | Post 10 made on Friday July 13, 2001 at 15:46
Teresa Tunnell
Historic Forum Post
If you can possibly afford it, get a TiVo. I was initially interested in TiVo so that I could use it to control my Telewest Active Digital Pace DiTv1000 box from my Pronto. The cost seemed quite prohibitive, but when I looked into what TiVo could do, it seemed like the perfect partner for the Telewest STB. I have had TiVo for a couple of months now and can control my entire home system from just my Pronto. But TiVo gives me so many more advantages. I can set TiVo to record programmes that are on more than one day in the future - in fact up to two and a half weeks in the future. That solves my summer holiday problems. I can also start watching a program before its finished recording. It takes less than 10 seconds to fast forward through adverts. Basically TiVo lets me watch my programmes exactly when I want to watch them.

The money I have spent on TiVo has been worth every penny.

Teresa
OP | Post 11 made on Saturday July 14, 2001 at 16:35
christopher
Historic Forum Post
Trevor,

Thanks for your comments - all taken on board.

The OneForAll Mosaic (apparently) does provide whatever is needed (IRDA?) to control the Pace STB according to the retailers (they wouldn't lie would they?) and I have read somewhere that for Pronto users, the Mosaic is a solution but the it is more restrictive in terms of the type and positioining of buttons and there is not a PC software thing like ProntoEdit to allow you to *play* for hours and hours creating complicated jumps and macros.

I will keep you infromed of progress, when I send the letter (I will post a copy before I send it to ask for comments / corrections) but meanwhile please do still progress with '2'. I had read that you were working with someone on creating an attachment but I hadn't mailed you with a 'me to'(as you requested) to keep me informed.

On the Sky thing. I got in touch with them today and they said that you didn't *have* to subscribe to get a mini dish. If you pay £100 for installation you get a free mini dish and don't get any of the 'subscription' channels. However you *do* get the non-subscription channels which include all the BBC's (including Knowldege/Choice/Parliament) CH4, CH5 and a whole rack (about 30)of other free channels (not just QVC & Shop!). You also get about 30 radio channels. You then get to control the box by Pronto, you get the Sky electronic programming guide and get Digital FOREVER for FREE. I just don't want to pay the 100 and have the (minor) hassel of the dish if I can get ntl to sort things out. The Sky thing does sound tempting tho!

Teresa,

Thanks for you views on TiVo - I am tempted !
I will do my sums and work out if I can justify the expence of either transfering to Sky or buying the TivO, but basically it would be a whole load easier if ntl were able to provide a solution. Cheers.

Do you remember the first thread you send on this same subject - it's huge now! That alone should be enough to get ntl to listen.

Thanks for all comments.
Any other workarounds that are *known* before I send the letter ?
C
OP | Post 12 made on Thursday August 9, 2001 at 09:17
Christopher
Historic Forum Post
I have sent my letter to Stephen Carter and I have had a reply tody.

Stephen has passed the letter to a Customer Liaison Manager who promises that the issue will be investigated and resolved in 20 days.

I was expecting the letter to get passed down, but now hopefully sorting the problem out has been instructed from the top so we will see what happens.

I will keep you posted with any progress . . . .
C
OP | Post 13 made on Thursday August 9, 2001 at 18:04
Guy Tanner
Historic Forum Post
Chris,

I doubt the MD ever saw your letter. More than likely that the work-experience chap, sorry "Customer Liaison Manager" gets the letter automatically, and sends out the standard reply you received.

What gives it away that the letter is a standard template is the "issue will be investigated and resolved in 20 days.".

If the box uses IRDA, I doubt a software patch or hardware hack can be produced in the "20 days" period promised in the letter.

The end result will be a letter in 20 days stating that IRDA is state of the art and will enable such activities as 2 player games and interactive packages becuase of the high burst signal.

Do not hold your breath.

Guy
Post 14 made on Tuesday October 23, 2001 at 14:47
Christopher
Founding Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2001
114
Guys,

Sorry about the delay in posting the reply from the head of ntl: regarding my letter posted in this thread.

Bad news I am afraid.

The reply letter confirmed what we already knew and said that, “additional features will not be provisioned until there is a compelling business case to do so”. In other words, unless there are a few hundred thousand people with the same Pronto/ntl: problem as we have, ntl: intend to do diddly-squat about it.

The letter also included the regular corporate stuff about how ntl: care about all there customers and how advanced their current technology is but the long and short is that the guy at the top has said that ntl: will not help us.

I phoned up after receiving the letters to give ntl: one last chance but I was basically told, again, that there was no business case to help us out.

So, I am now the proud owner of a new Sky+ dish with the far superior electronic programming guide, loads of extra channels, recordable to hard-disk, watch and record different channels, access to real interactivity that only Sky can do and finally I CAN CHANGE CHANNELS WITH MY PRONTO.

Too bad ntl: you lost this customer !

Christopher

> both reply letters posted below <

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

3rd August 2001

Dear Mr Booth

Thank you for taking the time to communicate your concerns to Stephen Carter. I have been asked by Stephen Carter to look into the issues you have raised and ensure the necessary actions are taken and to gain satisfactory resolution for both parties.

I can assure you that ntl: treats every customer concern seriously and the issues that you have raised will be investigated thoroughly.

I will be liasing with the most appropriate departments within the organisation and would hope to have your issues resolved within 20 working days from the date of this letter.

In the meantime should you feel that I can be of any further assistance, of you would like to discuss the matter further, please do not hesitate to contact me on 01582 XXXXXX.

Yours sincerely,

David Novell
Customer Liaison Manager

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

August 29, 2001

Dear Mr Booth

Your account number is XXXXXXXX

Thank you for you recent letter addressed to Stephen Carter highlighting your concerns regarding the problem you have encountered with you Pronto remote. I have been asked to respond to you and keep Stephen Carter informed.

It is our aim to make dealing with ntl: as trouble free as possible and we are sorry that you have been unable to receive a satisfactory answer to your question.

Your detailed letter and cross-references is very thorough and indicate your close interest in this subject.

I have spoken with our STB and Consumer Product architecture people and they confirm that we have no plans at present to provision the IR Blaster and IR Sender ports on the current generation of STBs. The boxes are “future proof” in several ways and additional features will not be provisioned until there is a compelling business case to do so.

I am also advised that the standard remote control of IR Keyboard we supply have a high degree of inbuilt sophistication to control the many Two Way TV games, which are now available in our Digital service. These commands cannot be readily mirrored by current learning remotes.

I hope I have clarified the position and I am sorry I cannot give you more positive feedback
Yours sincerely,

David Stephenson
Managing Director’s Office
For and on behalf of Stephen Carter, Chief Operating Officer


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