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Topic:
Pronto discrete “On” caused discoloration on Sony HDTV!
This thread has 14 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Wednesday July 27, 2005 at 23:41
bamazealot
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A few weeks ago, I programmed a Pronto remote and started using it with my home theater. My TV is a Sony KV-34HS510, 34” Trinitron WEGA. I got the discrete off/on codes for Sony TV’s from http://www.remotecentral.com/ and I was using those. I soon noticed that the sides of the TV were becoming badly discolored (up to 3-4” on each side). I had a technician come out and degauss the TV, but the problem came back as soon as I turned it back on.

Through experimentation, I finally realized that the problem only occurred when I used the discrete “On” code from the Pronto. The problem did not occur when turning the TV on using the Sony remote.

So, everything is back to normal EXCEPT that I now have a very slight discoloration even when turning the TV on using the Sony remote. It is only an area ~1/2” wide x 4” high on each side of the screen – not nearly as bad as when using the discrete On code. But I would like to get rid of it if I can.

One thing I noticed is that the top part of the screen pulls a compass’ North toward the screen; the bottom part of the screen pushes North away from the screen. So, the top and bottom of the screen have different charges, and the discolored area occurs in the neutral area between the top and bottom.

Do you have any ideas about what can be done? Is it normal for the top and bottom of the screen to have different charges? I wonder if using the discrete On code for a period of weeks, or having the TV degaussed actually messed it up permanently.
Post 2 made on Thursday July 28, 2005 at 02:16
King of typos
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Where are your speakers? Not only your home theater speakers, but where are the speakers that are in the tv?

Did you change anything since this problem started? Anything at all was moved around the tv? Such as candle holder that is made a metal or whatever. Some that was made a metal that was on top of the tv for along time? Besides the change of ir codes via the remote. Which by the way is not the suspect, the ir code that you are using does not cause anything like this. I do not have a compass right now, other wise I would test my screen on the top and bottum of the screen.

Were you there when the tech came by to degauss your tv? What did they do, did they take apart the tv or what? I am not sure what the exact procedour is to have the tv degaussed by a tech. But I do know this, each time your tv is turned on, by any means, the tv is degaussed each time.
Post 3 made on Thursday July 28, 2005 at 03:17
Daniel Tonks
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First, there's absolutely nothing a remote can do to mess up the hardware in your TV. But assuming that what you say above is accurate, the only thing I can think of is that for some reason the TV does not bother to do a proper degauss when it receives a discrete Power On. Which would be very odd software bug. Are the sounds the TV makes when turning on any different between the two codes?

But with that said, as Rob says, the need for constant degaussing is likely coming from an outside source, such as speakers, other equipment, or perhaps something else magnetized that's near the set. It also could be that the set is merely sensitive to magnetic north. I went through three Philips 34" sets until I found one that wasn't overly sensitive to facing south - all the others had bad discoloration, especially in the reds, unless facing west.
OP | Post 4 made on Thursday July 28, 2005 at 09:07
bamazealot
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There is a shielded Polk Audio center speaker located 1' above the TV. The problem occurred whenever I turned the TV on with the discrete On, even after removing the speaker. The internal TV speakers are on the sides of the TV.

At the time the problem started, nothing had changed except using the discrete On code. The problem occurred consistently and worsened over a period of 2-3 weeks. I ran about a dozen trials, and the serious discoloration problem only occurred when using the discrete On code. Since I have switched back to my Sony remote, the serious discoloration problem is gone -- there is only a small residual effect.

Even when using the discrete On code I could sometimes hear the “boing” of the degausser. However, something must not have happened exactly right, because the discoloration occurred even after I heard the “boing” of the degausser.

The tech waved a degaussing coil in front of the TV screen for a few seconds. He did not take the TV apart. My concern is that using the discrete On code over a period of time may have allowed a build up of magnetism on some parts of the TV if the discrete On code failed to cause the TV to degauss properly when it was turned on.

I did find 4 *small* magnetic latches on the entertainment center that were basically at the corners of the TV. It’s possible that these magnets in combination with improper degaussing are the cause of the problem. I guess my question is: should I pay to have another tech come out and degauss the TV again to try to get rid of the residual discoloration, now that the internal degausser appears to be working pretty well when using the Sony remote? Would an external degausser be any better than the built-in degausser?
Post 5 made on Thursday July 28, 2005 at 12:39
Ernie Bornn-Gilman
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The internal degausser is not as strong as the external degausser. The external, used incorrectly, can mess up your TV tube so that it takes repeated degaussing to clear the problem.

I would remove those latch magnets and just let it be, watching to see if the situation gets better or worse. You should hear the boing EVERY time you turn on the TV, though; if not, the internal degausser is not working properly.

I still have trouble believing that an IR power command could turn on the set without the degausser. You might just have to take weeks to figure this out, not using the discrete command at all for this time, then doing it again. Be sure to come up with an answer while the set is still under warranty.

Another approach just occurred to me, which is to program a toggle power command into your remote, that is used just once when you turn on the system, then find the sony SYSTEM OFF command in the Pronto files section. Your OFF macro would use that command, so even if the toggle put your system power commands out of sync, powering down would put it back in sync.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
OP | Post 6 made on Thursday July 28, 2005 at 20:32
bamazealot
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I know it sounds hard to believe, but I have proven to myself today that the discrete On code is definitely part of the problem. The problem is *not* intermittent. When I use the discrete On code, discoloration is *very* bad. When I use the power toggle on the Sony remote, the discoloration is still there, but only for a very small area.

For the first time in about two weeks, I decided to try the discrete On code with the Pronto remote again. The first time I tried the discrete On, the TV was still warm, so the degausser did not activate, and the screen was fine. Then I let the TV cool down for a half hour and turned it on again using the discrete On. This time I could hear the degausser activate, and I could immediately see that the discoloration was much worse than it has been for the last two weeks. Either this is a coincidence of gargantuan proportions, or the discrete On code is causing a problem with the degausser.

I am definitely going to remove the magnetic latches from the entertainment center just in case they are having some effect. Unfortunately, the one year warranty has expired, so I guess I will just deal with the very minor discoloration I am seeing when using the Sony remote.
Post 7 made on Friday July 29, 2005 at 00:43
King of typos
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With respect, the internal deguass is done every time the tv is turned on. Wheather the tv was off for 30 seconds or 30 minutes. The boing that you hear is the tv warming up.

If you feel comfortable, take the tv apart and dust inside. If you do take the tv apart, the ONLY way that is safe is to wait at least a hour after it's been unplugged, AND place the tv on it's face. Because in most tvs, the back panel supports the tube. When dusting, be sure that you use a duster that is not made of metal. When I do this to my tv, which is once a year. I feel very safe, because I've been shocked by 10k before, low amps of course. So I know what it feels like. But my heart rate is still a little high. When I clean the inside, I actually use glass cleaner and paper towel over every thing. If your vac can do this, attach the hose to the exhaust to blow any dust out.

Rob
OP | Post 8 made on Friday July 29, 2005 at 20:28
bamazealot
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I’m certainly not an expert, but I’ve read dozens of newsgroup posts and all of them said that there is usually a thermistor in the degauss circuit that must be cooled off before the degausser will activate when powering up. Regardless, the TV consistently becomes badly discolored whenever I use the discrete On code and I hear the "boing" sound.

Anyway, are you thinking that dust in the TV may have become magnetized or something? It's hard for me to imagine that that's the problem, but who knows?
Post 9 made on Friday July 29, 2005 at 20:39
King of typos
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What exactly is dust? Well dust can consist of anything and every thing in and around your home. And yes, dust can have metel products in it. That is why back in the day, about 40 plus years ago, there were so many products breaking down because of dust. Im sure it still happens, but not as much due to the better dust control.

Rob
Post 10 made on Friday July 29, 2005 at 23:33
Ernie Bornn-Gilman
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It has been my experience that the degausser will not activate every time you turn on the TV if you don't give it some time to cool down. The degausser has to have quite a current flow to make a large enough magnetic field to degauss, and heat is definitely a problem.

What is dust? Is it something that magnetizes only in the presence of a discrete Sony TV ON command?

This is still a mystery. Don't tie dusting to the problem.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 11 made on Saturday July 30, 2005 at 18:47
Daniel Tonks
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Someone pointed out in the OP's newsgroup posting (alt.tv.tech.hdtv) that the degaussing circuit on this set is controlled by a micro, rather than a thermistor, and that this might be a coincidence due to a partial failure of the micro, or merely a quirk in the micro that needs to be addressed.

Hey, it's not the first time Sony stuff hasn't worked quite right with discrete codes - I still remember a DVD player where "Power Off" would cause it to turn off and then back on again, and "Power On" wouldn't do anything unless the unit was already on, where the "play" icon would appear on-screen but nothing would actually play.
Post 12 made on Thursday August 4, 2005 at 22:26
Lyndel McGee
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Daniel? "thermosister"??? Is this Electrical Engineer lingo for Cold #itch?
Lyndel McGee
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Post 13 made on Friday August 5, 2005 at 01:14
TwistedMelon
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I'd think of high temperatures, not low if reading that literally. :)

I'm sure Daniel meant "Thermistor" though.

I'm casuall following this thread for some type of resolution though. The thought of a discrete On command (any for that matter) having this effect is just crazy. Crazy enough to be scary if true of course.

Bruno
https://TwistedMelon.com - Mira & Manta IR - Remote Control Your Apps
OP | Post 14 made on Saturday August 6, 2005 at 23:42
bamazealot
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Scary -- yes. I thought I had ruined an $1800 TV. I've been scared straight. I have ceased using the discrete On code, and have not had any more severe discoloration for the past week. I won't be using the discrete On code anymore.

I've found that the very minor purity problem that remains can be corrected by placing a tiny magnet on the edge of my screen. I've read several newsgroup posts that say this is an acceptable solution to correct minor localized discoloration.

Thanks for everybody's responses.
Post 15 made on Monday August 8, 2005 at 02:49
Ernie Bornn-Gilman
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On 08/04/05 22:26 ET, Lyndel McGee said...
Daniel? "thermosister"??? Is this Electrical
Engineer lingo for Cold #itch?

You're thinking of "transister," a nun who has had a sex change.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw


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