Did you look at the PDF file you sent me?

I'm not certain how much is lost from that file because I'm missing a font that Adobe needs to render the file. I'm assuming not much content was lost.

I see many commands documented for zones 2 and 4, with only a few for zone 1 and only two commands documented for zone 3.

My question was why is the documented set different by zone.

You seem to be saying that the set of commands it understands for zone3 should be just as big as the set for zone 2 or 4.

I hand copied the function names, zones and Data from that PDF to an XLS file. (I wish I knew a better way to extract data from that sort of PDF).

That XLS file is available here:
[Link: home.comcast.net]

The four columns are:
Data: The hex version of the backwards binary documented in the pdf
OBC: That Hex value converted to decimal.
Command: The name of the command
Zone: Which zone they documented it for. If command availability doesn't vary by zone then this column is useless.

I put the rows in the sequence the pdf file had them. More useful sequences are easy to get using Excel's sort operation.

If you see more functions in that pdf than I listed here then Adobe is dropping more than I thought due to version or font issues.

I don't know a decent way to do conversion to Pronto Hex in an xls file (others seem to). So this still needs the .irp file I'll do later in order to be useful and even then using it will require manually grabbing Pronto hex strings from a BIG .hex file using the xls just as a guide.

There seems to be some patterns in the hex numbering, so if there are any commands they haven't documented at all those may be easy to guess and check by following the patterns of the hex numbers.

I made a .irp file for Denon-K and tested a few samples of its output against DecodeIr (which doesn't prove much).

Once you have the device (or if someone else in this thread has the device) try some of the commands. Use the .irp that I pasted below. Change the device to 4.3 for zone 2, 4.5 for zone 3 or 4.7 for zone 4.

Use the xls I posted earlier to tell you which commands to grab out of the resulting .hex file.

Device=4.1
Function=0..753
Frequency=37000
Time Base=432
Zero=1,-1
One=1,-3
Prefix=8,-4
Default S=0
Define C=(D*16)^S^(F*16)^(F:8:4)
Suffix=1,-173
Form=;*,84:8,50:8,0:4,D:4,S:4,F:12,C:8,_

Just a quick followup... Many Zone3 and Main Zone commands are available as standard Denon codes (featured in the earlier pages of the PDF document).

A quick glance does give the appearance that there seem to be an unusually large number of Zone2 commands, but I haven't taken the time to try and count them (to compare) yet.

Bruno

Don't forget the receiver is capable of supporting TWO 5.1 systems in two seperate zones so there are codes for all the surround modes for zone 2 which are not available for zones 3 & 4, so ther should be more Z2 codes.

Tom

If I understand correctly:

1) That (Denon Kaseikyo) documentation is missing most Z1 and Z3 commands because those commands are available via the Sharp protocol.

2) It has lots of extra Z2 commands because those commands don't work in Z3 and Z4. I assume that means the Z1 versions of those extra commands use Sharp protocol.

It would be interesting to test whether the undocumented Kaseikyo commands, whose functions would duplicate Sharp commands, work.

The way I understand the file (after having gone over plenty of older Denon files) is that newly supported functions have been added using the Kaseikyo protocol (matching the following criteria):

1. Brand new Zone support (Zone4) - this Zone seems to be new for Denon, whose products have only previously listed 3 Zone control.

2. Commands that are new to all Zones, which includes input selection of VCR4 (this input didn't exist in previous models).

3. Commands to control DSP and Surround modes in detail for Zone2 - also new to this model and previously available on Main Zone only.

For every command in Zone2 there seems to be a version for the Main Zone (either something new using Kaseikyo, or using the standard Denon/Sharp codes that are used for other Denon products). This follows what Tom has saiid about the device, that the two first Zones contain the most (complete?) functionality. The other two Zones, 3 and 4, are pretty much set up the same way extra zones have always been with their other receivers.

It _would_ be interesting to find out if additional Kaseikyo commands are supported, but I wouldn't hold my breath. :) Denon don't strike me as the type to be that thorough and consistent when it comes to IR support (again, just based on looking through their other documents).

Bruno

Someone just emailed me a pdf file named
AVR4306_AVC4320_remote_codes_list.pdf
with questions about how to convert to Pronto Hex.

I can't really read that pdf file because I don't know how to download/install the "Japanese Language Support package" Adobe Acrobat says it needs for displaying this pdf (even though the contents seem to be in English). (It then says it needs the HGPgothicE font. Anyone know where I should get that?)

From the garbled display I can get, it seems to be the same sort of mix of Denon's version of Sharp protocol and Denon's version of Kaseikyo protocol that was discussed in this thread. I didn't dig hard enough to determine whether Denon made the same mistakes in documenting their use of Kaseikyo that were discussed in this thread.

I don't recall if anyone ever confirmed that the IRP file for Denon-K that I put in post 18 of this thread actually generates Pronto Hex that operates the device. I assume it all should work.

It looks like I never got around to adding the Denon-K.irp file to the MakeHex.zip. I'll do that as soon as I get or find some confirmation that it works. Meanwhile you can just copy it from post 18 of this thread.

I don't like answering IR questions by email, so my reply to the email will be to continue the discussion here. If he does so, hopefully someone in this thread who has actually used the Denon-K protocol with a Denon device can give a better answer than I can. All I know about Denon Kaseikyo is what has been emailed to me and discussed here. (but if no other expert answers I can provide more help here).

DENON AVR4306 RC CODE
FORMAT KASEIKYO
DATA CONSTRUCTION 48bits
ＤＥＮＯＮ CODE Parity GENRE1
４ ５ ２ ３ � 4
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0

GENRE2 Data parity
No. 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48
153 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 BAND FM
154 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 BAND AM
155 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 BAND XM

Obviously did not cut and past too well, but I will email the pdf to anyone who can play with and decifer.

I require the codes as Pronto Hex, but can not test until my 4306 arrives around Christmas.
I will see if I can get a code set for the 3806 as I can test this now.

The PDF is slightly more readable on the computer I'm at now (still pretty garbled, but I can make out the binary numbers).

I explained quite a bit of this in posts 11 and 15 of this thread.

In post 17 I linked to an XLS file with the info extracted from another PDF file. I checked a few commands in the 4306 pdf file whose command names matching those in the 5805 file. The one I checked had matching signals. (There are quite a few Zone 1 commands in the 4306 PDF that aren't in the 5805 PDF).

In Post 18 I gave the .irp file that can be used with MakeHex to convert all these commands to Pronto Hex.

To use the Pronto Hex generated by MakeHex you need the function numbers in decimal. For the commands matching the 5805, I put al those numbers in column B of the XLS file I posted.

To double check whether the 4306 really matches the 5805 and to convert commands that aren't listed for the 5805, you can get the function numbers from the "No." column in that PDF file.

You can use those numbers to directly look up the Pronto Hex in the output of MakeHex.

In that other pdf I was getting the command numbers by reading the backwards binary that is in columns 38 through 29 of this file. That works too (it matches the decimal in the No. column). I don't know whether the No. column was missing from that other pdf or whether Adobe was too messed up for me to read it.

Hopefully will get all the commands learnt from a 3806 AVR remote today.
Might provide more insight into this new code set Denon use.

I've been able to verify that the commands generated by your denon.irp file do, in fact, work on a Denon 4306. I did tweek a few values to get the codes to "look" more like the ones generated by the remote; the irp file I've used is:

Device=4.1
Function=153..820
Frequency=38381
Time Base=425
Zero=1,-1
One=1,-3
Prefix=8,-4
Default S=0
Define C=(D*16)^S^(F*16)^(F:8:4)
Suffix=1,-173
Form=;*,84:8,50:8,0:4,D:4,S:4,F:12,C:8,_

Using the Main, Zone 2 and Zone 3 "Aux" commands generated by the remote, this file generates codes that are almost identical to those generated by the remote when captured in the Pronto NG editor. The only difference is the last two hex values, which are 0B1E when capturd from the remote, and 0B06 when generated via MakeHex. One day, I need to read through all of the posts and really understand this stuff, as I can imagine there is a way through changing the irp file to fix even this....

John, thanks for all your efforts. The 4306 has a tremendous number of discrete IR codes, and thanks to you, I'm now able to teach my Pronto about all of them (or at least as many as I have the patience to enter; I still haven't connected my speakers to the unit yet and am itching to hear the unit live!!)

-- Dave

I would love to get a copy of the CCF when you have the 4306 discretes setup, I have a 4306 due to arrive next week.

Thanks,
Bruce.

Is their a list of the discretes that the 4306 supports?
Where do I get that pdf document that is discussed above?

Can discrete volume levels be chosen by remote?

Thanks,
Bruce.

Hey Bruce,

Hope all is well.

Email Tom (Boobie) directly I bet he'll send you the PDF. I had it but I deleted it from my inbox. He's a fellow SNL user and pretty much has his new toy up and running now. And, drop me a line while you are at it. I'm not sure which version of the Pronto you are using. Are you still using SNL? etc???

Lyndel