Hi

I need someone who has a 5805 and has learned the remote codes into a Pronto/Marantz to post a couple of codes up here on the board. It appears that the unit uses two different sets of protocols, a Sharp (which they have used for their other receivers) and a Kaseikyo (which appears to be new for them). I am interested in any of the following codes for the MAIN ZONE, User preset 1, 2 or 3, Scale, VCR-4 input or Monitor select. These are all Kaseikyo codes. Thanks in advance for your help.


Tom

Very timely post as I was just looking at those Denon codes this past week and was considering checking to see if anyone would be able to verify/test any commands.

I'll dig back through the docs. In the meantime, hopefully John will read this post and consider making a Denon-Kaseikyo IRP that allows the bastard codes Denon provided (Denon's last parity byte doesn't check out with the Kaseikyo spec).

Bruno

We know about the parity problem. John and I discussed that today via email. What we are looking for is someone who has learned some of these codes (if there is a remote to do so) and has put them into use. We want to see just how screwed up the PDF really is.

That would be ideal, but judging by the titles of the commands in the file, I doubt they're available on the stock remote. As a learn for those items may not come in a timely fashion, I'd first construct a raw code that simply duplicated what Denon specified, incorrect parity and all.

Can't hurt to verify that. Then I'd try one with the correct parity to see if the device understands that or not.

I suspect sooner, rather than later, these codes will appear in the libraries of some remotes, namely the MX-series from URC and/or Harmony. I just like knowing before they do. :)

Bruno

Hi

Those codes I listed in the first post are indeed on the remote, that is why I requested them.


Tom

And you can't learn them from your remote? As Lyndel mentioned, it would be interesting to find out exactly what the original remote sends so that we can compare this to the documents published by Denon.

Bruno

Hi Bruno

I don't have my unit yet, I was trying to get a jump on my CCF's before I got it, otherwise I would have learned the codes myself(if possible), that was the main reason I posted this thread in the hope that someone with one of these beasts would be able to post a few codes.


Tom

John, Tom, and I are all working this problem. That's why we requested an example code. We'd like to develop an IRP file such that all users can generate the discrete codes.

Lyndel

There are a few other people on RC with the 5805 and the 4806 which also uses the Kaseikyo protocol for these commands. It might take a post or two in one of the other forums for these people to see a request though.

Bruno

Tom just emailed to me a set of 5 of these Denon 5805 Kaseikyo signals learned from the original remote. Meanwhile I misplaced the pdf file with Denon's description of those signals.

I got (different) Denon pdf files listing Kaseikyo signals by email from two people. I haven't found those files on Denon's website, but Denon seems to have that kind of information on the web site.

If anyone has the URLs for those pdf files, I think that belongs in this thread.

Meanwhile, the five learned signals I have follow the Kaseikyo standard for the usage of the last four bits. I think I remember that the PDF file documented those last four bits and they didn't follow Kaseikyo standard. Once I find that pdf again, I'll look up these five signals and compare the learned versions to what Denon documented.

I've examined those 5 signals vs. the PDF file.

The PDF divides the variable bits into:
4 Genre1 bits
4 Genre2 bits
12 Data bits
8 parity bits

The Genre2 bits seem to encode which zone it is.
The Data bits encode the command.

All five learned signals have the correct manufacturer ID and their 12 Data bit match those documented for that named command in the PDF.

Four of them have the Genre2 bits for zone 1 and were identified by Tom as being zone 1 commands, so those bits are right. But the "zone 1 VCR4" command Tom gave me has the Genre2 bits indicating zone 2, not zone 1. I hope that means that Tom made an error in learning or labeling that command. Otherwise it means that the Genre2 bits don't encode zone as cleanly as the PDF indicates.

In all five samples the 8 parity bits fail to match the documentation in the PDF file.

The last four bits (second half of the parity) all match the values defined by the Kaseikyo standard. I'm pretty confident that will be true for the rest of the collection of signals.

The first half of the parity (in all five signals) match the extension of Kaseikyo parity rules that is used by Panasonic and JVC. But that takes on only two values across this set of five signals, so it might just be conincidence that those match. We'll need to experiment in order to verify that these signals really use the Panasonic version of parity.

In any case, the parity bits in the PDF, which looked implausible when we first got the PDF, are now confirmed as garbage. Fortunately, the rest of the info seems to be correct and I think MakeHex can reconstruct the correct parity simply using the rules we now use for Panasonic.

This message was edited by johnsfine on 08/02/05 12:46 ET.

Hi

Since the remote switches between zone page I beleive that the VCR4 code I sent you was from zone 1, however I could have made an error so check these and see if it helps any

VCR4 Zone 1

0000 006f 0000 0032 0082 0040 0011 000f 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0b37

VCR 4 Zone 2

0000 006f 0000 0032 0082 0040 0011 000f 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 000f 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0b36

VCR 4 Zone 3

0000 006f 0000 0032 0082 0040 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0b37

VCR 4 Zone 4

0000 006f 0000 0032 0082 0040 0011 000f 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 000f 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0011 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0030 0011 0b36

That should point out if there are parity differences by zone.


Tom

Those four all match the documented Genre2 and data fields.

The VCR4 command you emailed matches the Zone 2 sample you pasted above.

These extra samples are enough to confirm (in my opinion) the theory that Denon is using Panasonic's version of the parity computation.

Why does Denon document a different subset of commands for each zone? The command bits and zone bits seem to be independent (where a command is documented for two different zones it has the same data part). So every command can be encoded in every zone.

I don't really know what a "zone" is. Are some commands not physically meaningful in some zones? Or the device doesn't impliment them? Or they just skipped them in documentation?

John

I'm not sure I understand your zone question, the 5805 is capable of controlling four seperate output zones and has a switching matrix to switch any input to any zone outpute as long as you can get an IR signal from that zone to the receiver you can select what input you want to watch in that zone (room). Most of my gear is located in the theater in the basement with the livingroom being zone 2 and the bedroom zone 3, I am going to add a zone 4 shortly. I have Xantech equipment located in my "zones" and tied together with cat 5. My wife and I are avid movie watchers and this way I can select any of my movies to watch anywhere in the house.

I just uploaded a new version of DecodeIr with support for "Denon-K" (Denon Kaseikyo) protocol.
Decode_IR_DLL.zip [Link: hifi-remote.com]

I needed to fit their division of bits into the fairly rigid set of field names used by DecodeIr and related programs, so I decided:

Device = their 4-bit Genre1 field that they seem to use as a device number.

SubDevice = their 4-bit Genre2 field that they seem to use for zone: 1=Zone1, 3=Zone2, 5=Zone3, 7=Zone4 (we don't have examples ogf any other subdevice value, but all values 0 to 15 are possible in theory).

OBC = their 12-bit Data field. In theory that can be any number from 0 to 4095. But the PDF I'm looking at has 753 as its largest OBC number (still a LOT of OBC numbers if you wanted to try a full scan of them using MakeHex).