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Topic:
TSU6000 IR questions
This thread has 13 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Wednesday July 13, 2005 at 01:00
Max Power2
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Hi all,

I've become obsessed with the 6000 since I first saw one a week ago. Whats really gotten me hard is the prospect of controlling my lights via the RF ability of the TSU6000.

From what I gather the unit has built in RF capabilities (extender not needed). I'm looking at also buying a Clipsal (brand of switch) RF light switch.

I'm going to purchase internationally so I need to ensure these are going to be compatible. I've managed to find out the switch operates at 433.92Mhz. I don't know all that much about freq.. but from that can I determine if the two will be compatible?

Any advice would be appreciated.
Chris

This message was edited by Max Power2 on 07/13/05 04:41 ET.
OP | Post 2 made on Wednesday July 13, 2005 at 01:10
Max Power2
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Just found this... bugger.

"The Pronto cannot control RF-only equipment. Certain RF devices such as satellite receivers can also be controlled by infrared, so you may wish to contact your manufacturer to double-check. Currently, there are no universal remotes that can control RF components."

They make these switches with IR control, so the question still remains. Is there any code, specification or details I can obtain for either device to determine if they will be compatible.

This message was edited by Max Power2 on 07/13/05 04:18 ET.
Post 3 made on Wednesday July 13, 2005 at 01:16
bomberjim
Super Member
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The RF capability is intended ONLY to pass IR signals to the extender, which in turn forwards the IR signal to your gear. In other words it's a method to "extend" an IR signal. It is NOT generally able to control RF devices directly.

Having said that, there are SOME exceptions. European X-10 devices can be directly controlled under some circumstances. Even if the frequencies were compatible, the 6000 won't learn an RF signal. It is unlikely you'll be able to get your lights to work. You could use IR controlled lighting (Lutron) or use an X-10 system (would probably require an X-10 controller).

EDIT: We posted at the same time. In any event, I've no doubt the 6000 would be able to learn the IR for your lighting.
Jim L
OP | Post 4 made on Wednesday July 13, 2005 at 04:13
Max Power2
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Thanks heaps for the info Jim.

I found this while I was hunting thru the forum.

"Either way it is only a slight gamble. These remotes seem to do pretty much everything except for the tiny fraction (of a fraction of one percent) of the products out there that have no IR carrier or have IR carrier frequencies higher than the remotes can handle."

Can anyone expand on what an 'IR carrier' is?

I agree it shouldn't have a problem learning the IR for the switch. Just trying to educate my guess.

This message was edited by Max Power2 on 07/13/05 08:16 ET.
Post 5 made on Wednesday July 13, 2005 at 11:30
bomberjim
Super Member
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Well my electrical engineering degree is severly dated, but as I remember, the carrier wave carries the information about the code. While there are several methods that can be used, a modulated carrier is the most common. We have a basic sine wave (carrier wave with it's own frequency) and this is modulated (kind of combined with a second wavform) to produce a signal that has pulses (bursts). This pattern contains the IR information.

Pronto has the capability of learning this information up 56kHz in frequency (carrier wave). There are few devices (very few) that use frequencies above this. If the manufacturer will give you the carrier frequency, and it's below 56kHz, you are almost guaranteed success.

Look here: [Link: geocities.com], Figure 1 and 2 about half way down the page.
Jim L
Post 6 made on Wednesday July 13, 2005 at 15:11
johnsfine
IR Expert
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5,159
There are at least two levels of what an electrical engineer would call a carrier.

1) The IR light itself has a frequency, so technically everything else is modulated onto that carrier frequency. But when you talk about IR signals, you don't call that a carrier nor modulated.

2) Most IR protocols are modulated on a carrier frequency around 38Khz (including as high as the 56Khz Jim mentioned). That modulation means that while the signal is nominally "ON" it is actually switching on and off in a square wave (not a sine wave) at the carrier frequency. Typically that "square" wave isn't actually square; It has a duty cycle around 33% rather than 50%.

Some IR protocols don't have that modulation at all. Rather few, but not as few as the fraction of a percent mentioned above. Fewer are modulated with carrier frequencies far above 56Khz than are unmodulated.
Post 7 made on Wednesday July 13, 2005 at 17:31
Peter Dewildt
Loyal Member
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Chris, the 6000 was superceded nearly 2 years ago, and is no longer supported by Philips.

The current model is the 7000 which is very much far superior to the 6000. Philips is continuing to enhance the functionality of the 7000.
Peter
Pronto 1000 (retired), Pronto TSU7000, RFX6000 (retired)
Pronto 2xTSU9600, RFX9400
OP | Post 8 made on Wednesday July 13, 2005 at 22:58
Max Power2
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Thanks guys.. appreciate all the info. Well sounds like I'm shit out of luck. The lighting is at 433.9mhz so well outside the range of the remote. So just to confirm this remote won't control anything in Mhz will it?

Peter, yeah I saw the 7000.. but to tell you the truth I like the 6000 a little better. The fuzzy effect of the 256 screen make the icons look softer & more cartoonist which I kinda like. A few extra hard buttons, memory and USB would be nice.. but for $300 AU more I can't really see the huge advantage over the 6000.

Are there any other developments I’ve missed that put the 7000 ahead.

This message was edited by Max Power2 on 07/13/05 23:43 ET.
Post 9 made on Thursday July 14, 2005 at 00:03
bomberjim
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433.9Mhz is RF not IR. If they do make an IR version of the switch (as you said), this isn't it. As far as the 7000 goes, there are a few more refinements, multiple jumps in a macro, jump back, jump forward, but those are the biggest items. Don't know what your price range is, but you might consider an RC9200, it's the Marantz version of a 6000 that has the extra buttons and the programming features. These are really quite handy. Problem is Marantz will only honor the warrantee if it's purchased from an authorized dealer. Best price from an authorized dealer (refurb) can be found here: [Link: accessories4less.com]
Jim L
OP | Post 10 made on Thursday July 14, 2005 at 00:25
Max Power2
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I thought dam it.. it won't work, I'll have to move on with my life. But the 6000 is just too cool to stay mad at.

I really want to be able to control just one light switch. If I can't get the control to operate that switch, I'll find another switch.

This is the clipsal gear I was looking at... very sexy, quality gear.
[Link: cbussales.com]

Are there any other brands ppl could recommend that will work with the remote. Need's to look good & be stand alone (I only need one switch).

Jim, thanks again, I'll recheck that info on the IR for the switch.
OP | Post 11 made on Thursday July 14, 2005 at 02:48
Max Power2
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Checked out the RC9200.. but it's 2/3 more than the 6000
[Link: accessories4less.com]

[Link: cgi.ebay.com.au]
Post 12 made on Thursday July 14, 2005 at 11:17
bomberjim
Super Member
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If it's only a single location (or multiple switches that control one light) you could use a Lutron Spacer. This works well for me, but it's not as sexy as the clipsal. Look here: [Link: store.yahoo.com].

You're right, that is a good price on a 6000.

EDIT: I noticed the clipsal was rated at 240 volt, the spacer is a 120 volt switch.
Jim L
Post 13 made on Thursday July 14, 2005 at 17:17
Peter Dewildt
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You are the first person ever to say that they prefer the 6000 to the 7000. If you saw them side by side you would not even contemplate the 6000.

With the 7000 you can edit the entire screen which is double the 6000. With the extra screen space and the extra buttons, you don't need to put navigation controls (such as tabs) on the screen. This means that the 7000 has effectively 3 times the editable screen space. This is really dramatically worthwhile.

The 7000 image is far crisper and much easier to read. The 6000 is washed out and hard to read in comparison.

You are also likely to get hit with around AUD$200 in taxes and fees by Australian customs (whichever model you get).
Peter
Pronto 1000 (retired), Pronto TSU7000, RFX6000 (retired)
Pronto 2xTSU9600, RFX9400
OP | Post 14 made on Friday July 15, 2005 at 03:55
Max Power2
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Just ordered me a 6000.. hopefully the old "warrantee repair" should avoid those pesky customs types.

cheers for all the advice guys.


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