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Topic:
Challenge: RECS-80 (PCM, 12 bit) and Pronto? (GIRA IR light systems)
This thread has 6 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Thursday April 1, 2004 at 12:26
mork
Lurking Member
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February 2004
7
Anyone have any experience with this signals on a Pronto?
I'm having real trouble getting Pronto to control this. It's IR and receives signals on 455kHz with above mentioned IR-signals: RECS-80 (PCM, 12 bit)

Any help would really be appreciated!
Post 2 made on Thursday April 1, 2004 at 16:29
Lyndel McGee
RC Moderator
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Shazbot! Nanno,Nanno!

LOL
Lyndel McGee
Philips Pronto Addict/Beta Tester
Post 3 made on Thursday April 1, 2004 at 17:42
jarmstrong
Founding Member
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RECS-80 is an older Philips IR protocol and in some versions of the Pronto it can be generated from the databse commands that start in 7000.

Why don't you post a link to the full technical explation that you attempted to summarize above.
OP | Post 4 made on Sunday April 4, 2004 at 11:55
mork
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The problem is that I don't have any technical information.

But I'll try to be more specific about my question:
In my house I have GIRA downlights. (German manufactur, and installed by the pevious owner).
All downlights can be controlled by a remote control. The manufactur claims the remote control operates with IR at 455Khz and uses the old Philips and Siemens based signals called RECS-80 (PCM 12 bits). The main problem is that my Pronto can't learn the signals, since it's above the "magic limit" of 56Khz.
Second problem is then that I have no clue how to "capture" the signals from my GIRA remote, for then try to convert them to signals Pronto can use. As I understand Pronto can send signals at 455Khz, but not learn. My Pronto is the european model SBC-RU890, equivilant with the US model TS1000.

Basically, I need to know if there's any chance to get my Pronto to work with the GIRA system....and if possible, how to accomplish this.



Post 5 made on Sunday April 4, 2004 at 13:33
Dave Houston
RF Expert
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October 2001
1,521
On 04/04/04 11:55, mork said...
Second problem is then that I have no clue how
to "capture" the signals from my GIRA remote,
for then try to convert them to signals Pronto
can use.

You should be able to capture them using a TSOP7000 infrared receiver module (Vishay-Telefunken) and this simple setup...

[Link: mbx-usa.com]

The TSOP7000 has the same pinout as the ones shown.

Once you have the .wav file, you can convert it to a CCF with the WAVE2CCF application.
Post 6 made on Sunday April 4, 2004 at 14:00
Ernie Bornn-Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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December 2001
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On 04/01/04 16:29, Lyndel McGee said...
Shazbot! Nanno,Nanno!

LOL

I always thought that was spelled Shozbot. There are two vowels, and he pronounces them the same as each other. I know we are talking about English spelling here, but what is the reason to spell one with an "a" and the other with an "o"?

And if you listen to Mork again, you will hear that he says Nanoo, not Nanno!
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 7 made on Sunday April 4, 2004 at 15:15
jarmstrong
Founding Member
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If you can't come up with more information from the manufacturer, then what Dave has suggested may be your only option. Here are my concerns:

1. What is the frequency of the modulated IR carrier? I found two datasheets from Philips [Link: semiconductors.philips.com] and [Link: semiconductors.philips.com]

Philips, IIUC, created the RECS80 protocol. Those data sheets (for RECS80 transmitters) show three different IR protocol variations for a RCECS80 transmission. Flasher Mode(unmodulated) and two Modulated modes one with an additional bit and a different start sequence. Both modulated modes use a ~38 KHz modulation frequency, but the tranmitter chips do use a 455KHz clock for timing (but the modulation frequency is 1/12 of the clock).

2. How many bits does the Gira protocol use? The RECS80 Flasher mode and one modulated mode use a toggle bit followed by three sub-device bits and six command bits. Since the start sequence looks like a bit, I could say that is 11 bits. However the other modulated mode has a Toggle bit, four sub-device bits and six command bits, but its start sequence is two short bits. To me that would be 13 bits.

So to generate the command, then we would need to know the IR modulation frequency AND to resolve the "12 bit PCM" question. We would also need to have some idea what the sub-device and command values are or you will need to test a lot of commands, again suggesting Dave's method.

It isn't unheard of for an IR command to be the same protocol at a much higher frequency. Kenwood has used the NEC1 protocol at 455 KHz. But, I do think the Pronto should be able to learn the 38KHz or the 0KHz flasher mode that would suggest the higher frequency (unless the batteries are bad in the OEM remote and should always be replaced when encountering learning problems).


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