Hi,

I am trying to figure out whether my Classe CP-35 preamp will work with the 2116/2117.

Based on a search here, a number of Pronto users have Classe equipment (not this exact piece, though) and it uses RC5 protocol (whatever that is). Does the 2116/2117 support RC5?

Interesting note, I had my Classe remote at Radio shack today, and the have a little strip that shows you whether a remote is working. It glows when Infrared shines on it. My TV remote makes the strip glow. My Classe remote doesn't. I thought it must have broken in transit, but when I got it home, the remote still worked just fine. I wonder what's different about it?

Thanks. BTW, sorry for starting all these separate threads. I am trying to follow the "start a new thread" advice seen here quite a bit!

- Eri

Does your Classe remote work through walls, from another room? It might be RF?

Hi, no, it's strictly line-of-sight. And you have to point the remote at the pre-amp. Also, it has a little bulby-looking round thing in the nose, which I assume an RF device wouldn't have. I'll confirm this with Classe.

- Eric

If you found that those devices use RC5, you should have been able to find the "device number" of RC5 that they use. You might need to get the CCF files (if you didn't already) and run CCF2EFC (preferably the new one with decoderIR) and see the number after "(RC5):".

Does each similar Classe device have the same device number or do they have different one?

The 2116 supports RC5, but (without JP1) it only has some RC5 device numbers. If you post the RC5 device numbers (from those CCF files) that you want to try, someone will tell you the 2116 setup code (if any) for that RC5 device number.

A CCF normally stores RC5 in a special form that CCF2EFC doesn't understand. Usually only a few of the learned signals get decoded (the ones where the Pronto itself didn't recognise that the signal is RC5). If they're all stored in the special format, you might need to ask one of the other CCF file experts what the RC5 device number is.

I took another look and getting the device from the special format is easier than I thought. Here is an example (not Classe). CCF2EFC displays a signal as:

"Right Arrow"5000 0073 0001 0000 000A 004D

The 5000 indicates the special RC5 storage. The 000A is the device number in hex, so this is device 10. The 004D is the OBC in hex, so this is OBC 77.

Hi John

Thanks for that message. I started down this road because the 2117 wouldn't learn from the Classe remote. Now that I know the learning module on the 2117 is broken, I am waiting for the local Radio Shack to get a new one in, and then I can presumably just have it learn the codes.

Even so, I do have a few questions, if you don't mind!
First, is there any advantage to "manually" entering these codes, rather than learning? Like less memory used?

Second, to continue the disussion about codes, I used my PalmPilot to learn from the Classe remote, using the "OmniRemote" software. Here is what it reports for the mute button:

Button name-Mute
0000 0069 001C 0000 000F 0122
000A 0127 000A 0122 000A
[and it goes on like this for about 10 more lines]
Does this mean anything to you as far as what types of code the Classe uses?

Thanks!

-- Eric

p.s. If you don't have time to deal with this, let it go and I will report back after trying the learn feature, hopefully soon!

The 2116 has limited memory for leaning. It has seperate memory for Key Moves. If you can define the functions you want as Key Moves, you probably can handle more functions as Key Moves than you could as learned signals. Since the memory is seperate, you definitely could fit more as a combination of Key Moves and learned signalsthan with either alone.

The RC5 protocol has a "toggle bit". A learned signal can't get the toggle bit right. A key move does. On most devices, if you get the toggle bit wrong, the device won't recognise the use of the same key twice in a row. (Before any key can be used again you'd need to use some other key. That can get real annoying if you try to enter the number 11, assuming a device where entering two digit numbers means something).

I don't know the OmniRemote format at all and can't guess it from that fragment. I do know RC5 well enough that I think I'd recognise it in some unknown encoding if I saw a few complete samples. But I thought you said you found Pronto info on this brand. That would be an easier way to find out what the signals are.

I got a fax today from Classe, and it turns out that my preamp doesn't use RC5 (it seems from information in the Pronto group that the Classe AV preamps use RC5, but I haven't confirmed this with Classe). Instead it uses "RECS80". Sorry for the confusion.

I mention this just in case anyone else is searching here on Classe. The codes they sent are for the CAP-101, CAP-151 (integrateds), CP-35, and CP-47.5 (preamps). Inquire with Classe about any others ([email protected], and send them a fax number). The listing also includes these remotes: RC1, RC2, RC4, RC5, RC10, RC12, RC14, and RC15.

All the listed units and remotes use the same overall code (Code 1 -- with one exception noted below). Within that code, all the invidual command codes are identical. Of course, not all units have all features, and likewise not all remotes implement all features, but when a particular feature is implemented on a unit or a remote, it is done using the same command code across the board.

The one exception is "RC Model 4", which controls a "remote interface box," that allows you to remotely control power on/off for up to 6 amps. This combo uses code 5 rather than code 1, and the individual command codes overlap ones used for other functions on the other units.

Does anyone know of another brand of device that uses RECS80 Code 1? If so, this might help me use a "ready-made" code in the remote (I tried all receiver and amp codes, so I am guessing this won't work, but it's worth a shot).

My preamp has 15 functions, of which I would like to use about a dozen. Should I be using JP1 to set this up (I haven't played with it yet, but have the parts for the cable in-hand) or should I just "learn" the dozen codes and move on (realizing that I need to do the same thing with several more pieces of equipment)?

Thanks,

- Eric

A few web searches later, I'm now pretty sure that Classe is using the Philips RECS80 code generated by the SAA3004 chip. I'm not sure whether all the descriptions of "RECS80" elsewhere that contradict this are all errors or whether there is more than one protocol named "RECS80".

The 2116 has only one setup code for this protocol. It is DVD/0651, which is "code 5" in the terms Classe seems to be using.

There are 64 different functions possible (msb 6-bit comp for any other experts lurking).

Was the thread about this in the Discrete hunter forum you or someone else?

Do you want to use code 5 for something or did you just want code 1? (Someone could tell you the msb6comp translation of the Classe command numbers to OFA EFC numbers).

Code 1 would be easy to add as a JP1 upgrade, but I think it is built in only for the RCU810, 7541 and 7560.

Hi,

I just want to use Code 1. That other information was just in case someone else with a Classe unit is searching this thread.

The 64-function limit seems plausible. The individual command codes in use by Classe run from 1 to 42 (they skip some numbers). Also I think someone told me years ago that Classe and Philips/Marantz use the same remote codes.

The "discrete hunter" thread was someone else.

It sounds like JP1 is my next move, unless you think I can do all this via learning. I gather I will need these "OFA EFC numbers"? If anyone wants to volunteer the translation, I would love to see it.

I will read up on JP1 before I bug you further.

Thanks,

Eric

The JP1 group has several tools for translating function numbers into EFCs. All those tools handle 8-bit MSB-COMP translation. I don't know of any documented tools that do 6-bit MSB-COMP translation, but if you multiply the function number by 4 and then use 8-bit MSB-COMP translation, you get the right EFC.

Manual mode of KeyMap master, when you set Signal-Style to MSB-COMP and Bits/Cmd to 6, OUGHT to do 6-bit MSB-COMP translation, but it does 8 bit instead. I don't know if that is a bug in KeyMap master or if Rob has a different opinion than I do about what it "ought" to do.

There is a new version of KM under development that already does 6-bit (and other sizes) of MSB-COMP translation correctly. Once you get a JP1 cable, I'd be glad to write the few lines for the new KM's protocol.ini file that would tell it how to make upgrades for this protocol.