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Page 7 of 11
Topic:
New RS remotes
This thread has 163 replies. Displaying posts 91 through 105.
Post 91 made on Thursday November 7, 2002 at 12:54
TransAmMan
Long Time Member
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29
Does anyone know what the db-08 to db-14 device
buttons are in IR?
Also the other settings options?

The HT section (transport/volume/channel/menu/pip) defines which devices you use when the remote is in "My System" mode. Common settings are to set transport to VCR, volume to receiver/amp/tv, channel to tv/sat/cable, menu to tv/sat/cable, and pip to tv. choose the appropriate setting that works for you.

The VPT section sets Volume Punch Through for a common device. Common settings are status to "on" and device to receiver/amp/tv. The other settings let you remove punch through for individual devices. For instance, you want to have your receiver control all the volume functions for your home theater except when you watch tv. You would set devices to amp (or rcvr) and set TV VPT to "off". Your remote will control the amps volume in every mode except tv where the tv will control its own volume. Note, mute is included in the
VPT mappings.

The extra "virtual" device keys (db-08 to db-14) are useful for adding codes to devices that you don't use often and don't want to waste a whole "real" device key. I only know how to access them through macros though, maybe somebody else can answer if there is another way to access them directly.
Post 92 made on Thursday November 7, 2002 at 14:58
jamesgammel
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Trans,

Have you tried reassigning one of the regular device keys to one of the "virtual" device keys? I.e. reassign the "TV" button from "TV" to say "db-11"? Do those even show up on the lcd, or just in IR. I did see them in IR from someones IR.txt save and they seemed to be assigned perhaps default codes. Rob, I think made the rdf for the 2116/2117 and must have discovered they have "phantom" device codes, somewhat like the C6 thinking it's a 7 device remote instead of the 6 devicer it has device buttons for. John says you can actually use that 7th device on a 6800, although I never dug into the specifics. I'm wondering if this means the 2116 is actually a 15 device remote in 8 device clothing. I'd suspect the "My system" button is the one that can't be assigned 2 devices? I wonder if Rob is holding out on something? Perhaps something he found but doesn't fully comprehend yet.
Jim
Post 93 made on Thursday November 7, 2002 at 21:30
TransAmMan
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Jim,
I've successfully set codes to those "virtual" devices and then keymoved them to hard keys. I haven't been able to set the remote in a "virtual" device mode yet.
Looking at the RDF file, it appears that there is a memory range set for those devices (well duh, how else would they be there!) and that the remote can indeed handle 15 devices. What is needed (I am just guessing here) is for those device buttons to be set to their proper range, so IR can select them. The RDF file posted is just a beta and I suspect some tweaking can bear some fruit. I played around unsuccessfully to guess the proper key address. That's my extent of programming know-how. I'm sure that others will know exactly how to get to them.............in time.
Post 94 made on Thursday November 7, 2002 at 21:43
johnsfine
IR Expert
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September 2002
5,159
A while back in the JP1 group, I posted some information on selecting devices that have no key code (I'm pretty sure these have no key code). There's also some support for that in the special protocols spreadsheet.

I haven't had time to add the new remotesto the special protocols spreadsheet. Several of the experts have the information required to do so, but I guess none of the others have had time either.
Post 95 made on Saturday November 9, 2002 at 08:41
culp4684
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I am an owner of a 15-1994 and have been following this thread for the last week or so. Keeping in mind that I have no intention of getting involved with JP1 (unless someone designs a simple software program!), is there really enough of a difference to justify upgrading to a 2116 or 2117?
Post 96 made on Saturday November 9, 2002 at 09:42
TransAmMan
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Thanks John,
I'm looking up device key info on the JP1 forum.

culp4684,
Is there a reason to upgrade? No, if your completely satisfied with the 15-1994 and it does everything you want. Yes, if you need something (like an updated device code) that is in the 2116. The remotes have pretty much the same internals. The only thing that I really miss on the 2116 is the 4 keys that I used to use for system on/off/config. With JP1 however, the device keys can now be programmed to contain macros and as my wife says "That makes a lot more sense".

You don't want to get involved with JP1 until someone makes a simple software program. Have you downloaded the IR.exe program from the JP1 group on yahoo. You don't need a cable to run the program and see how to assign buttons for your remote. Only the advanced fuctions like using the keymapmaster spreadsheet to upgrade your device gets a little complicated, but since your not upgrading your device anyway try IR.
I don't know what could be easier. Example: Under device button, pick TV, then type in your 4 digit code. Much easier than holding "P" down untill the light flashes twice......etc. Try it out.
Post 97 made on Saturday November 9, 2002 at 19:34
culp4684
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Trans-

I'm willing to give it a try, but I am having all kinds of trouble accessing the JP1 group. I've joined and was issued a password, but I can't get passed the page where it sates how many messages over the last several months have been posted to this group.

Is there a direct link?
Post 98 made on Saturday November 9, 2002 at 21:11
jamesgammel
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Culp,

That's the "Home Page". It should have about the last 5 most recent messages. Look on the left side of that page, you'll see "home", messages, Files, database,etc. Each of those is a link. Messages will list the last 25 or so messages, and you can go back further by clicking "previous" at the top. There's also a "search" box. The IR program can be reached from any page by clicking Files>tools (I think it's second on the lisy of file categories) In tools, you'll see several files, Including IR307a. Also the latest KeyMap Master (KM) It should be at the bottom of the list in tools. IR is a zip file, so when you unzip it, make sure you tell windows to put all of the contents in one folder, and you can give it a name.
There's another IR (310?) that you DON'T want, at least not yet. There's a note that mentions it's for remotes with larger eeproms added.
KM is one of the 2 major programs we work with, and it gets a lot of updates, especially over the last few months. You'll want to keep tabs on the versions to make sure you keep getting the latest version. Sometimes the updates are minor cosmetic things, and other times they may be to fix something or add something new that's major( like support for the 2116/2117 when those came out).
Jim
Post 99 made on Sunday November 10, 2002 at 07:31
culp4684
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Trans & Jim,

OK. I tried your suggestions and to make a long story short was able to download the IR.exe program. Forgive my lack of technical knowhow here, but all I get is a file with multiple choices of devices ( Kenwood, etc) that I don't know what to do with. Am I understanding you that I don't need a JP1 cable to take some advantage of this?
Post 100 made on Sunday November 10, 2002 at 09:18
jamesgammel
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Culp,
I think TAM's suggestion to look at the IR program was in response to your "until someone makes a simple software program" remark earlier. Of course without the cable having the program won't prove to offer any particular advantage.
IR is the actual program that's used to communicate directly with the remote. With the cable you can "see" how your remote is set up. It can also be used as a tool to program your remote without doing all the manual keypresses. It can also be used as a tool to look at the signals you may have learned to various buttons. If you are using a lot of learned buttons, that information allows you to make keymoves of a device upgrade (with KM)to thus allow you to dump those learned keys and have that learning memory space back again to use for something else.
The IR program isn't terribly complex. For instance, The "general" tab would list all the 1994's device buttons. If you're familiar with how to manually work your remote, you know for example that you can reassign the device buttons to be something else. That procedure involves several steps, ie, Holding down the P button till it blinks twice, typing in a 9xx code, pressing the button you want to change, pressing the button you want it to be, etc. In IR, You just click on the button you want to change, then scroll down the drop down menue, and select the one you want it to be. On your 1994, you can have the remote "blink back" the device setup code assigned to the device buttons. That involves doing the P and getting 2 blinks, typeing in a different 9xx command, pressing "1" and counting the number of blinks, pressing "2" and counting the number of blinks, etc, etc. In IR, the setup code is given in numeral form, and you can see ALL of the device button's assignment at once, with NO blink counting. No trying to remember what setup code is assigned, all of them are given on one easy to read "chart". Even the VPT settings are listed at the right half, and can be assigned with your keyboard, just like device buttons and their setup codes. You can print that page so you can have a visual reference to it.
With a cable, you can see and make keymoves or build macros on their respective "pages". The devices tab is where we input new device upgrades, and can edit them via our keyboards, or delete one. Adding one is just a copy and paste routine(from KM). Protocol tab is where we can enter NEW protocols, or delete or edit those. The Learned signals Tab lets us look at each learned button, one at a time; all learned buttons will be listed on the left. Clicking on one brings up the data on the right, all about that one button. The "raw data" is the complete huge block of hex data concerning what's programmed in the remote. That page is what IR saves when you save it. We can save it as a .txt file, and email it to someone else, he can load it into His IR program and see how your remote is set up--he'll see exactly the same thing you did.
If you made some type of programming error, he can fix it, save it, email it back to you, and you can upload it to your remote, and all's well.

The list you saw would have a few "readme" files, and the individual "RDF" files for each different JP-1 able remote an rdf has been made for. If you have 5 distincly different ueic remotes, It should have each of the rdf's for each remote, so you can look at and program all five of them. The actual one you'll have to click on to look at IR is the one called "IRexe" Hooking a remote up and downloading it to IR, IR will select the right rdf for you, you don't even have to know which one you need. However, without the cable, you'll have to select the rdf for the remote you want to look at. In your case, the 1994. I THINK, that the 1994 is the one that comes up first when you first open IR, so you probably won't have to select it. If not; just click file>new>select>1994.
Take a look at it, play with it, see how simple it is. What the heck, you can't hurt anything.
Jim
Post 101 made on Sunday November 10, 2002 at 12:15
JackRelahan
Long Time Member
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November 2002
20
jamesgammel
Even I understand better about JP1 and IR307.
That is a great writeup. Thanks.
I have never understood about the "Phantom key".
Could you explain that function when and if you
have the time.
I have both the 1994 and 2116 remotes.
Mainly interested in the 2116.
Thanks again for your help with us novices.
Jack Relahan
Post 102 made on Monday November 11, 2002 at 13:54
slocko
Founding Member
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August 2001
221
you can use the phantom key to assign an advance code you can use in a macro. for example let's say i need to use the zenith record trick to create a long delay that I need in a macro. You don't want to waste a real key on the zenith record because you would never use it outside of the macro. So you can assign it to the phantom key. Same thing for the discrete on and discrete off. If your device supports it, it becomes easier to build your macro if you assing the advanced codes to discrete on or off.
Post 103 made on Monday November 11, 2002 at 15:42
jamesgammel
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Jack,
Slocko gave a few examples of where a phantom key might be used, but he didn't really explain the nuts and bolts of "phantom keys". Quite honestly, to adequately cover it would take pages and pages of description, much of it technical, way more time and space than can be covered here in this forum.
As you know, thru IR we can access the eeprom's of the remotes, and not the actual processor. Most of the remotes come with either 1 K or 2 K eeproms, more the latter. Conceptually you can picture that as like a clerk at the post office standing in front of 2000 mail boxes he can stuff, a sort of matrix with "cubby-holes".
You are also aware that when you set your remote in a device mode, or program your remote upgrade thru KM>IR each device only allows you to assign functions to certain buttons. That's NOT a limnitation of KM, it's a limitation put in by the firmware on the processor chip. Part of that matrix is the "boxes" you can use. If you have a learning remote, part of that matrix is for storing what's learned on the various buttons. Part is for device upgrades and protocol upgrades, and part for macros and keymoves.
As you are well aware, some remotes have more physical buttons than another one does. A huge block is devoted to those physical buttons, and their derivatives, like "shifted buttons". However, not all the space is actually used., there's more space allotted than even that most numerous-buttoned remote.
Thru IR, and the RDF's that were developed for them, some of those unassigned "boxes" in that "buttons" segment can be used as "phantom keys", keys that don't physically exist. However, they can be accessed thru macros.
There use can come in handy for functions we might rarely use. I'll try to give an example that maybe you can follow and find "down home".
Let say you bought a nice Panny big-screen tv(not a wide-screen model). OK, you got that cuz you like nice big normal formatted pictures. You Don't want to "Waste" almost a third of your screen with black bars top and bottom by using that "silly" 16:9 mode that panny might allow thru the "aspect ratio" button.
So, for you, you may rarely, if ever want to use it. So, why waste a button in your normal tv mode for that one. When you watch tv, generally you want the full 4:3 pix, and even rent or buy the "bigscreen" version of the dvd just to stay away from that 16:9 format. Well, crap, you want to watch a particular movie, but the video store only had the wide-screen version available, and it's saturday and you really want to watch it, and not mess with going back repeatedly till someone returns the big-screen version dvd.
Well, here's where you might want to use that rarely used function. Assign a small macro to do that "button press", but that "aspect" button was assigned to one of those phantom keys. You might think of other examples: i.e. you rarely use "random play" when you listed to cd's. You can assign that function to another of those phantom keys and access it thru another mini-macro.
The drawback is you can't directly access that function because it's on a button that doesn't actually exist.
Phantom keys would be especially handy on a remote like the 2116, where you can assign macros to the device buttons. If your panny tv has enough inputs where each video device has it's own input, and your receiver does likewise, then assigning those tv and receiver inputs to phantom keys and programming the device button macros would "totally" free-up the need for those on physical keys for your remote, laving more physical keys for other receiver functions, and possibly allow you to combine yout tv(with fewer needed buttons now), with something else, like maybe a simple vcr, with the basic functions of each.:)
Your 1994 can also probably be set up the same way, but the way the 2116 works, it's more ideally set-up for these. How to set them up will require a lot of thought and planning, but discrete access codes rather than multi-stepped toggle codes would make it a bit easier.
Jim
Post 104 made on Monday November 11, 2002 at 15:58
schivins
Lurking Member
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November 2002
7


I finally got the 2116 stuff all working. I think the VCR problem was a glitch in the matrix. I started over from scratch and all seems well.

The only thing I don't like now is the TiVo is an added device VCR 0636. I loaded the protocol into KM and re-generated a code for the 2116. All is well and it works fine. I assigned this to my SAT button.

Now the problem is on the remotes LCD it says VCR and the 0636 which I understand since it displays the device of VCR. Can I get this to say SAT instead somehow?

It is confusing with my actual VCR. I have to double take and look at the code to make sure. I would like it to say SAT since I use the SAT button. Then VCR will be my VCR.

I doubt this is possible but you guys know all the tricks :)
Post 105 made on Monday November 11, 2002 at 16:00
JackRelahan
Long Time Member
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November 2002
20
Would I assign the Phantom key in IR.EXE using
"Key Moves"??? Then use Phantom key in a macro???
I'm trying to turn off my Sony devices using
"Hex Cmd = $F4"."EFC =109 {aka 365 or 621}in "Key Moves".
Example of Macro:
power = TV;ph1;DVD;ph1;ect;ect
ph1 is phantom key 1.
This will not work for me, so I must be doing
something wrong.
Any suggestion???
Thanks
Jack Relahan
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