I want to clarify some of the exceptions to the features of the Cinema 7. For example, you can put a learned function on any button EXCEPT: device keys, macro buttons, and sleep.

You can stack macros on any valid button EXCEPT: number buttons.

Get the idea? Can someone help?

You cannot learn a code to device keys, sleep, SETUP. You CAN learn a code to either macro key. I just proved it for myself by teaching my satellite's POWER button to my bedroom cinema7 macro2 button. The macr2o button now powers on and off my satellite.

The reason you can't stack anything on a number key is because the Cinemas recognize SETUP followed by number keys to be either an advanced code try or a device programming try. To stack program onto any key you have to press SETUP before the key, thus the conflict.

Dave.

BTW, it is SO easy to resolve these questions just by TRYING them on your own remotes. Why am I and ingenious the only ones who have figured that out?

David. Thanks for all the great input. BTW, maybe it's because you and ingenious are smarter than everyone else. Or, maybe it's because you're more adventurous than everyone else. Or, maybe......Oh, never mind. The bottom line is that the forum is to exchange info. If others are a little nervous about experimenting with their remotes they ask questions. It always seems to work and you've always been gracious and helpful. In other words, your "BTW" remark was completely out of character. Regard, Dan

There is another reason....most of us already have programmed their remotes and use them for their home systems. It's a real pain to experiment on them and end up screwing up all of the painstaiking work done to program all those advanced codes, macros, and learned functions. For example, I tried to see if a macro could be programmed to any key. So, I assigned a test macro to the "1" button in my unused AUX device. I soon found out ANOTHER interesting rule: Macros get assigned to EVERY device.

What's worse is that I am the ONLY techincally inclined person in the house. This last weekend, my roomates were without TV because of a silly programming error I made in one of the macros they accidentally accessed.

BTW, you CAN stack a macro on a number key on most One for All remotes that support macros. Use the same programming sequence as you would for a stacked function on any other key. Then to play it back, press the "Setup" key TWICE. The rule is: One press followed by a digit key = start of advanced function entry. Two presses followed by digit key = access the "shifted" function. (But remember, when programming the key, you only hit Setup once)

Alfa... what screws up putting a macro on a shifted number key is that as soon as you press SETUP then the number key the LONG BLINK responds, saying "sorry, no can do". The few times I've tried this has always been the result. Of course, this is only on my Cinema7 7800 remote. Someone PLEASE prove me wrong.

Here's a little know fact about macros:

As soon as a key is made into a macro it will be that macro in all devices. BUT, you can go to any device where you don't want it to be a macro and reprogram it back to it's original function, an advanced code, or learn something to it if allowed. The macro will remain effective on the same key in all other devices except those you've reprogrammed. I have done this. Very handy.

Dave

Dave,

I assume the "long blink" you see is during the programming sequence. I just tried it again on my 7800(rev B00)and it works fine. I know other One for All remotes also work this way. Maybe there is a difference between various revisions of the C7??

Response by Dan Barham on 01/25/00 09:03.11 new!

> David. Thanks for all the great input. BTW, maybe it's because you and
> ingenious are smarter than everyone else. Or, maybe it's because you're
> more adventurous than everyone else. Or, maybe......Oh, never mind. The
> bottom line is that the forum is to exchange info. If others are a
> little nervous about experimenting with their remotes they ask
> questions. It always seems to work and you've always been gracious and
> helpful. In other words, your "BTW" remark was completely out of
> character. Regard, Dan

In my own two bits, I also take exception to David B.'s statement "why
are me and Ingenious the only ones that have figured that out?". In
the weeks I've owned a Cinema 7 (since Xmas), I know as much about the
Cinema 7 as anyone here (and for what its worth, I knew about
programming the EFC's long before anyone knew what a "Cinema 7" even
was!), and this without asking anyone for any explanation of how the
keys work after I bought the unit (including not asking OFA for any of
my EFC codes or anything either). And I'm sure that me, David B. and
Ingenious are not the "only ones who have figured out how to program
the C7 for themselves", or tried to do so.

It's just like you say; some people are a little uncomfortable (or
what-have-you) with such experimentation, and others aren't. OFA's
bizarre omission of half the #@$! functions of this remote in their
manual is certainly NOT helping anyone (never mind their miserly
tactics of hiding these Extended Function Codes from their
customers, and making them beg for the codes!...).

Sometimes someone may ask a question about the remotes to see if
anyone has come up with a solution for something they haven't been
able to figure out on their own (example: At one point, I was going to
ask if anyone could figure out a way to write a macro that had a
'pause' function, whereby the next key would not play out until a
special key simulating a 'pause' function was hit. Reason being I
wanted to put a few of my favorite TV channels in a macro so I could
do a quick easy sweep of the TV channel grid, but for obvious reasons,
could not have the keys repeated at super macro speed, and I wanted to
put it all on one or two macro keys, not one key for each of approx.
10 channels. Only reason I didn't bother to ask was because I just
determined for myself (without bothering to try and program such a
macro) that there wasn't any practical way to do this with a C7). I'm
sure no one person here is a total expert on the in's and out's of
these remotes. I believe it's with the *combined* knowledge of all the
people involved, and the sharing of that knowledge (including what may
have been related by OFA, let's not forget!), that we will all
benefit.


Response by David B. on 01/25/00 22:15.53 new!

> Alfa... what screws up putting a macro on a shifted number key is that
> as soon as you press SETUP then the number key the LONG BLINK responds,
> saying "sorry, no can do". The few times I've tried this has always been
> the result. Of course, this is only on my Cinema7 7800 remote. Someone
> PLEASE prove me wrong.

Okay, I proved ya wrong! Alfa's right. It's just as he said, on the
Cinema7 7800 remote, you program SETUP+digit key, then press SETUP
twice to activate the digit-key macro (bypassing the normal EFC
sequence). How do I know? Because I TRIED it! It is SO easy to resolve
these questions just by TRYING them on your own remote! (hehehe...)



Response by Gerard J. Pinzone on 01/25/00 11:04.26 new!

> There is another reason....most of us already have programmed their
> remotes and use them for their home systems. It's a real pain to
> experiment on them and end up screwing up all of the painstaiking work
> done to program all those advanced codes, macros, and learned
> functions. For example, I tried to see if a macro could be programmed
> to any key. So, I assigned a test macro to the "1" button in my unused
> AUX device. I soon found out ANOTHER interesting rule: Macros get
> assigned to EVERY device.
>
> What's worse is that I am the ONLY techincally inclined person in the
> house. This last weekend, my roomates were without TV because of a silly
> programming error I made in one of the macros they accidentally
> accessed.

Speaking of which, there's another "interesting macro rule" to keep in
mind: if you alter the programming of any key programmed into your
macro, your macro will take on the altered function of that key.

Wonderful! It's always great when discourse is stimulated.

Sorry, Cico. Didn't mean to leave you out. Thank you for your well thought out responses. Now that I know I can use shift-shifted number keys for macros, I just have to think up a reason to.

Now, are there any others out there upset about not being included as "self solvers"? It occurs to me that the best of them probably have no need for these forums, so I humble myself.

Keep up the great work, everyone. And keep the questions coming.

Dave ;-)

I think I may have a "use" for these shifted (or shift-shifted as the case may be) buttons. As cico mentioned, "if you alter the programming of any key programmed into your macro, your macro will take on the altered function of that key."

Since the shifted keys are the same as the regular keys by default, you can safeguard your macro programs by always using shifted keys. This way, even if you redefine a key later, your macro will always use the original definition of the key.

One example of this is when I programmed my cable box's channel up/down over the TV channel up/down using the key mover function. I did this to make the remote more idiot proof for other members of the household who shall remain namesless (cough...cough). When I needed to make a macro involving the TV's channel up function, I simply used MAGIC-ch+ instead of ch+.

Now that we know that the number keys have a shifted counterpart, we can ensure these "original" key definitions are used as well.

Now for the $64 question: do shifted keys take up more space in a macro than regular keypresses? What about the newly discovered shift-shift-# sequences?

I actually had to rethink my programmed keys and macros because I was using too many shifted keys. YES, pressing the SETUP button does subtract one keypress from the 15 total you can use.

Dave

Response by David B. on 01/27/00 11:10.38 new!

> Wonderful! It's always great when discourse is stimulated. Sorry,
> Cico. Didn't mean to leave you out. Thank you for your well thought
> out responses. Now that I know I can use shift-shifted number keys for
> macros, I just have to think up a reason to. Now, are there any others
> out there upset about not being included as "self solvers"? It occurs
> to me that the best of them probably have no need for these forums, so
> I humble myself. Keep up the great work, everyone. And keep the
> questions coming.
>
> Dave ;-)

Uh.... can I just mention that now I'm upset at being characterized as
having been "upset" about not being included as a "self solver"?
(kidding!) I just thought I'd correct the notion that there were just
two people around here who were willing to experiment with programming
the C7 on their own. But clearly, you and Ingenious have contributed
enormously to our collective understanding, no argument there (and in
this "collective understanding", seems there is more information on
the C7 here than is written into the manual!). So I put the spotlight
of recognition back on you, and I probably shouldn't be saying this
for some legal reason or other, but y'all have got my vote for the
"Cinema7 Award of Excellence" prize, in all technical categories.

Now that the backpatting festivities are over, I must say it does make
sense that the "best of the self solvers" would have no need for these
forums. Most of what I've learned about the C7 came from this forum,
and a few other sites on the net, but I still read it because I am
still "into" the Cinema 7. I read it just to see if anyone has found
any interesting tidbits about it that would expand my knowledge of it,
or to field questions about it if they haven't already been addressed.
I'm sure I will stop reading and thinking about the C7 when it ceases
to interest me, and I'm no longer "into" the Cinema 7; perhaps
distracted by the acquirement of a new toaster, or a portable cassette
player. But maybe "into" doesn't quite cut it. Pathologically obsessed
with the Cinema 7 perhaps? I don't know. But to say that it has
transformed my life, more so than the addition of my child to the
family (had I children), would surely be an understatement.

Okay, maybe I'm exagerrating by calling my interest in my C7 an
"obsession". I mean I'm sure I'm not the only one who sleeps snuggled
up to their Cinema 7 every night. All I know is that I don't like to
leave the house for extended periods of time anymore, because I hate
leaving my Cinema 7 alone by itself, unattended. There's nothing
"weird" about that though, because I only do so as I believe you need
to press the buttons every so often, to keep it in top form and
prepared for when it comes into action. Not unlike, say, oiling a
bicycle chain. Still, there *are* times when I don't know where it is.
I do suffer anxiety attacks during these periods, but this is just the
same kind of thing a concerned parent might feel if they've lost their
child, especially in an area with a known high "child kidnapping"
rate.

Anyway, I put a remote finder on her, so that isn't much of a problem
for me anymore. Relief is just a "beep" away, as they say. The only
other time I'd get very nervous over the status of my Cinema 7, was
when someone else had their grubby hands all over her. You just can't
trust other people to take the same care of your precious things as
you can. Who else can understand the true value of a Cinema 7, but a
Cinema 7 owner? So understandably, when someone would drop my Cinema
7, I'd get heart palpitations. That isn't good for your health, and
neither is telling your wife she isn't responsible enough to handle
your remote control. Or your husband, as the case may be (sorry, my
lawyer made me write that).

So I added a "Rebound" rubber remote protector to my Cinema 7 (herein
known as the "Cinema 7 condom"), and although I'm still sweating
bullets whenever someone else is handling her, at least that has put
an end to the heart palpitations at the sight of seeing my naked C7
being personhandled (sorry for that awkward phrasing, but the PC
police are *everywhere* these days, and they're watching me especially
closely....). I started getting a wee bit nervous again when I found
that the Rebound didn't make a tight fight at all points around the
perimeter of the C7, but I fixed that up real quick with some
multi-purpose adhesive putty (a lifesaver if there ever was one),
between the rubber boinger (C7 condom) and the C7's gorgeously
sculpted resin bodywork.

I also upgraded her with a digital clock in order to have to work less
at imagining I really had an A/V Producer 8 in my hand (which because
of some conspiracy that I'm currently pouring research into
uncovering, isn't available in my country...). But that was just
cheezy and messed around too much with the natural aesthetics of the
C7, so I downgraded it to a regular clockless C7 when I got a VCR
recently with a blindingly bright face clock. In order to compensate
for the downgrade, I upgraded it again when I put epoxy glue on key
buttons, so that I could improve the tactile reading of the key
layout, clearly an inherent shortcoming of the C7 (okay, that's all
the criticism I can stand to hear for the sublime C7). And YES, I was
very, very nervous the night I added glue to my precious C7, as any C7
owner would be! My systolic blood pressure was -way- off the map that
night, I can tell you! Whew!

Now I'm thinking of upgrading the epoxy to rubber silicone gel,
because I'm not "crazy" about the 'finger feel' of the hardened epoxy
(and I'm even less "crazy" about it's 'tactility' when the epoxy is
soft). Besides which, if you're really trying to, you can push the
whole thing right off. I had already tried hot glue, but that didn't
provide a better tactile feel either. (Yes, I realize I'm proably the
only C7 owner in the world "crazy" enough to take a hot glue gun to
their C7's keypad - but I admit to having a reckless streak.... It's
in my family bloodline. As lore would have it, my great-grandfather
was said to have painted his barn once some weird color besides red -
canary white I think).

My next Cinema 7 upgrade project will probably involve adding a light
to the unit, to compensate for a major complaint of the C7's design,
namely the lack of electroluminescence. This should be child's play.
It's merely a question of placing an "Itty Bitty Book Light" on the
back of the C7, and fixing it there with heavy duty industrial rubber
bands. The only open question in my mind would be where to find the
nearest AC outlet to plug in the extension cord for the light.

I notice there are a lot of traitors betraying the OFA line to snap up
the RatShack's pale imitation of a Cinema 7, just because it has a
silly backlight and they are dissatisfied with the C7's glow in the
dark keys (SOME people apparently think the C7's glow-in-the-dark keys
are "cheezy". I don't think they're "cheezy". Why? Just because they
make monster vampire fangs out of the same kind o' stuff??). We
-already- know the RatShack's attempt at a C7 has a lower quality of
functionality than the C7, who knows what other inferior aspects there
are to this remote? Maybe they use cheaper parts outsourced from some
Mongolese slave labor factories set up in the middle of a jungle
somewheres. Frankly, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the chips in a
15-994 melted in two years time, if not two weeks. No thank you. I can
live without the backlight, or with some sort of a reasonable
compensation for the absence of one. Much the same way a Harley owner
could do nothing but scoff at a Honda rider, it's gonna have to be the
original, good ol' made in China Cinema 7 for -me-.

Besides, I feel those fancier models are overrated. Who really needs a
built-in clock, anyhow? Isn't it safe to say that anyone with a remote
as powerful as a C7 has a vcr, and is there any vcr's that don't
already have a clock?! And how useful is a clock that keeps needing to
be readjusted anyhow, if the reports here from a/v 8 users are
correct? (although it's probably worth noting that I've only seen such
complaints about the clocks in OFA remotes....). I feel the new
"electroluminescence" remotes are also overrated. Just one more thing
to conk out on you. There are enough reports from OFA a/v remote
owners confirming their remote lights have completely died on them to
convince me that they're a BAD idea all around (although it's probably
worth noting that I've only seen such complaints about lighted OFA
remotes....). What with all these controversial issues over cell
phones, who knows what the radiation from those things does to you,
anyhow? I certainly don't want to become sterile one day because I'm
not adroit enough to find a bunch o' keys on a remote in the dark.

I put up pictures of the C7 as a background in my Windows setup, but
that's more for aesthetic reasons again, than anything psychosomatic.
In the brief periods that I do let it out of my sight, I can at least
look at a representation of it when I'm on my computer reading or
writing messages about it. It's more a question of "pride of
ownership" than anything, I'm sure. I think you have to be a C7 owner
to understand....

LOL ROTF!