As for the DIY guy or girl, That is how I got into the business myself. I have always been out doing my own thing which evolved into people paying me to do similar projects for them. I think it sucks when someone who really likes to do this stuff gets locked out because they are not doing it for a living.

I think there are three types of people,

clients- they pay people to do things for them because they can use their time more wisely elsewhere and have a buck to spare.

DIY- might have plenty of money to spare but like fiddling with things. These people will never be clients. They will however continue to be resourceful and find what they need and make it work

Cheap Bastrds- They just are cheap and what not only a deal on product but expect you to hold their hands for free. The group might become clients but it is never a great relationship

Personally I like the DIys as it is always interesting to see what solutions they come up with. I have never seen the problem with them getting their hands on sacred gear and access to extra knowledge bases.

I have been serving the affluent DIY market for many years, exclusively with quality remote control systems, programming and significant consulting.

Unfortunately, my business has suffered due to manufacturers allowing "unauthorized sales" on eBay. It is not so much that the manufacturers allow un-authorized sales on eBay. I feel they have turned a blind eye toward this type of sale because they and their distributors keep product moving, in tough times, regardless of the channel conflict.

The Nevo products were made for specialty resellers/installers who have the credentials to program and deliver a great solution.

About 1 year ago, every bozo who has a tax ID seems to be able to buy Nevo products from distribution and sell them wherever they want. EBay seems to be the main place for this activity.

So, net-net if you want a great price, buy from the ebay bozos and deal with the fact that you have no warranty and no dealer to go back to for warranty service, etc.

If you want to pay some more, then buy from a "truly" authorized dealer who is also "certified" by UEI to deliver a proper solution.

We are an authorized and certified Nevo reseller/installer. RemoteQuest.com

Buy from us with comfort that we know the product, we know how it works and does not work and we have hundreds of hours of programming experience with their products.

Dave
RemoteQuest.com

guy :) - shouldn't matter on the net i guess (i could be a wookie for all you know ;) )


Betterway - Thanks for your considerate words. I was reading around and just happened to run into this thread. Was actually worried someone would give me a "what are you doing in the pro forum" comment.

Pronto has been an awesome gadget (I know this is Nevo territory, but I would have thought that the customization angle equates to the nevo as well). Someone asked me a while ago what the best gadget I have is and it still is the pronto for me. I don't have any plans to go into the AV business, though the desire to do stuff myself probably stems from my IT background (having done the pc builds and software installs thing for a while). The lockout is what I'm concerned about. Not everyone needs an expert to set things up for them, but need to be able to buy if they can so afford.

[Link: remotecentral.com]

In the above link I see that the software for the Pronto was originally, hesitantly released to the public, but it's possible at least some of the success of that and the present versions (and maybe even the likes of NEVO SL) have been influenced by this. It doesn't all have to be free, but making tools available to enthusiasts ultimately grows your market. These remotes take effort to configure, so I have to laugh at the stupidity of the people who bought them without research and expect anyone to help setup for free.

To be honest I'm a bit sad as the pricing for devices like Nevo SL, Pronto etc and edging me out now. I would have liked to upgrade, but I can't justify the costs of the newer devices for myself. I realise much r & d must go into these and there are support considerations, but really hope someone can come out with a product that can achieve what these products do at a lower price. Adding the support via an authorised installer would also be good way to not get people hassling the companies direct.

Wookie, I feel like a wookie today...

I am proud to be a Nevo authorized reseller as well and I think it's important for customers to know that Universal Electronics asks us to directly handle education, programming & technical support ourselves. That means... even if you plan on doing the programming yourself you want a dealer that will continue to support your system.

I buy and sell a lot of products on eBay and I believe it is a valuable marketplace but I would never post a Nevo system there because I'm not sure it can be properly sold as an "add-to-cart" product. I wouldn't even have buy buttons on my site for Nevo if it wasn't a limitation of my knowledge of the web software.

I prefer to e-mail, and speak with customers several times and then quoting complete package prices including the Nevo remotes, Nevo Connect, cables, Z-wave switches and even Playstation 3 converters if needed.

PDA remotes are a DIY product because they are meant to be an ongoing project. Never in a million years would i attempt to sell one to a paying client becuase they are not bulletproof.

Nevo on the other hand is a solid product thats meant to provide a solution to someones AV problem :). Nevo does not intend to create a cult DIY following and they dont want open source anything. Just because a DIY'er can program a Nevo.. doesnt mean they are allowed to or should.

The rules have been created.. those who follow them have access to warranty and whatever else. Those who break the rules.. from the very beginning.. in the case of ebay sales.. dont deserve the perks IMO.

It sucks but we all know.. you gotta pay to play. A few months ago i bought a laptop that didnt have bluetooth. I bought the bluetooth kit from ebay and installed it. Now i have bluetooth. Had i broken my laptop trying to get bluetooth.. it would have been my fault. I didnt get any tech support with the bluetooth kit.. i had to figure it out on my own. I knew that going in. I didnt assume otherwise.

The whole "transfering warranties" thing started with the automobile industry.They wanted to new car buyers to buy cars more often, and an easy way to help was to add value to the used car by extending the warranty to whoever buys it within the warranty dates.

That doesn't work with electronics, most of us keep our equipment well past it's warranty period, even pay to get it fixed then. We only upgrade when we want more out of what our current system's capable of.

Really? That statement bothers me alot. It's mine, I paid for it, I'll do what I want with it. I can certainly understand if I mess up the programing that someone else created, I have to pay to have it repaired. If I open the device up and break the hardware, my fault, I have to pay to have it fixed or I'm SOL. But if I buy a brand new, sealed in the box device that was faulty when it left the factory through no fault of my own, I would like to think that the manufacturer would stand behind it. As a DIY'er have I gotten myself in over my head before and gotten in trouble? Of course I have (iPod connection kit for the car comes to mind), but I knew the pitfalls when I got into it, and when I needed help I was perfectly willing to pay extra to have someone back out my mistakes and do it correctly. And I learned alot and enjoyed the experience much more than if I had just had someone else do it for me.

I love my Nevo, I've had it for a couple of months now and don't know what I did before. I've reprogrammed it, adding new z-wave devices, changing screens, new layouts, new colors, button changes, etc about a dozen times since I got it. Quite honestly, it would be worth less to me if I wasn't able to do this, if it was static and I couldn't play around with it I would be frustrated and probably not be nearly as happy with it. But that's me, I know I'm not the mainstream type of Nevo user. And really, programming this thing is pretty simple. I've even cracked open the packages to see what makes them tick, and it's they're really just a bunch of XML zipped up, it's pretty cool actually. Now someone will probably tell me that's not allowed either, and I'm a terrible person for doing it. I've even thought about putting a sniffer on my network and seeing how it controls the NevoConnect, that would be cool to see and emulate. I'd bet you could control it from an iPhone with just a little work. And I wouldn't downplay PDAs like the iPhone or iPod Touch, they will be the future of the Nevo. The only thing the Nevo has that they don't is the IR, and that can be done via a NevoConnect device hidden in the cabinet. Could you imagine if Nevo made a version of Studio/Software to run on the iPhone with a NevoConnect and then charged for the software and a small fee for each device's discrete codes?

I guess in the end we're saying the options are, buy it on ebay and pray it's solid, or buy it from an authorized reseller who is going to charge twice as much for services I don't need or want. What I'm asking, and I think other DIY'ers as well, is isn't there a happy middle ground somewhere? Pay more than they are going for on ebay, although I'm not sure why, the ebay sellers must be making a profit and I'm sure UEI is getting their cut, but hey throw another one or two hundred in and sell it as 'authorized' with a warranty.

Either way, mine seems pretty solid (cross fingers) and if it makes it past the UEI warranty's year long period, I'm ahead $750. And I can fiddle with it and add my own pictures and buttons and everything!

-CP

If you as a consumer buy a brand new unsealed Nevo remote that you did not get thru a Nevo dealer.. you broke the rules when you bought it and you should assume any drama that comes a long with it.



If you had purchased an ipod from someone other than an ipod dealer.. should apple support it if its defective? Im going to guess that apple will say no. Nevo definately will say no.


Lets get one thing straight.. im not calling you a terrible person for wanting to do it yourself. Im saying that you dont get to break the rules Nevo created and then expect them to provide service or support for the product. Just because you want something a certain way doesnt make it so. If that were the case i would have no problem bringing extra chicks home. I would just justify it to my girlfriend by telling her i will be frustrated and not nearly as happy if i couldnt have multiple chicks tonight.

I wont guess about PDA's and what their place in AV is.. it has always been a DIY toy thats cool but cool doesnt make it a bullet proof remote control. The iphones remote app is great.. unless of course you forgot to launch itunes. Before apple or any PDA can calim market share in the universal remote realm they need to address things like this. Obviously this limits what products like Nevo can do but its better to have 75% of everything being controlled properly 100% of the time then 100% of the products being controlled 75% of the time.



Nevo is a solution not a remote. If you buy it from ebay your getting the bare bones kit. You are your tech support and installer and programmer.

When you buy something on ebay that should be purchased thru an authorized retailer.. your either a Cheap Bastard or a DIY'er. Cheap bastards want something for less than it really costs and then they want to complain about why they dont get tech support or why their projector remote (they bought in japan to save money) doesnt have english buttons on it. A DIY'er knows the rules and risks.. and anyone using ebay to purchased anything knows the rules and risks.


If it breaks what then?

Well, not to get caught up in this discussion. I have always sold Nevo's to two types of clients. 1) the client who wants a good remote and wants to have it professionally programmed to their specifications.

2) the DIY client who wants to do their own programming.

It became clear to me many years ago that both types of clients exist and both have different needs. So, when we set up our business model, we made room for both types of clients.

The DIY guys are good clients and the clients who want a complete solution are also good clients.

If the DIY guys want to buy their remote for a better price through un-authorized sellers than fine. I always warned them of the downside and I tried to fight this trend but it became obvious over time that it was not going away.

So, I embraced both types of clients and they have both been good customers.

Things change and resellers have to change as well.

Dave
RemoteQuest.com

I agree completely. Anything in my posts that seems negative towards a DIY person is meant for the "CheapBastard" client not the DIY client. And anything in my posts that sound like im bashing online retailers.. im not. Im talking about ebay sellers who break the rules not legitimate dealers who happen to sell online.

Being that your an authorized retailer.. you offer a remote for MSRP & provide warranty and service. This is the perfect path for the DIY person who wants to tinker and not assume the risk.

The ebay sellers are cutting the price.. making less money on the product.. they can do this because they dont plan to ever support the product. This is why ebay sales are at-your-own-risk-sales.

They get the money for the goods, but it doesn't cover providing a hand-holding service for customers. These companies aren't geared up to provide first line service, not to mention the fact that some things are impossible to troubleshoot without being on site. Just how would someone from a call centre identify RF issues with a remote because the neighbour just installed a wireless router and a bunch of multiband DECT phones?

Before starting my own business I worked for AV distributors and a manufacturer, so I have first hand experience of how leaving customers to work out complex products on their own will eventually bite you in the the ass. I've been in businesses where the returns rate was up as high as 17% all because dealers were trying to shift boxes with products that needed to be installed. The motto seemed to be "If in doubt, ship it back". Establishing a training program, investing time with dealers, doing site visits all helped to cut the returns rate down to single figures. It was one of the big problems Philips had before the new generation Prontos were launched. UEI learned from Philips mistakes.

As for Ebay sellers, I struggle to understand why someone would be willing to hand over a sizable chunk of cash to a complete stranger and be perfectly willing to accept them washing their hands of the product.

The absolute minimum I would expect is a replacement warranty as a condition of doing business, wouldn't you? After all, they're willing to take your money, so shouldn't they at least provide that service? After all, replacing something that's obviously broken is actually a straightforward job. Where things get expensive for the Ebay seller is in returning or replacing goods that aren't faulty. Once they've spent time and wasted money needlessly shipping remotes backwards and forwards because they and their customersc don't understand the product then the message will hit home.

Regards

Chris
Lucid AV
UK

Does anyone have a NevoLink that they would like to get rid of? I am looking....

These goof balls who buy or see nothing wrong with buying them on eBay are lacking in the brains department. #1, they are cheap skates looking to get them for next to nothing. They deserve not having any support with Warranties, programing, software, etc. Nevo probably doesn't waste their time going after these idiots because there are so few of them or they are selling off the old discontinued models like the SL. Why would any legitimate Nevo dealer help these people? They should know the reasons and not pander to these dirt bags.

WADR, you have no idea what you are talking about. If you are a dealer/installer, I'm sure your disdain and self-righteousness come through. Unfortunately, it does with a lot of Nevo dealers. (Not all, of course, but enough to reflect poorly on the company.)

There is a simple reality that your bitter, uninformed analysis doesn't accommodate: the vast majority of people in the this country (U.S.) don't have access to a local or regional Nevo dealer. There are major metropolitan areas still unserved by Nevo's weak distribution and sales model. People who want a Nevo remote in their system but live in those areas are all cheapskates, idiots, and dirtbags?

BTW, "cheapskate idiot dirt bags" don't spend hundreds of dollars on a remote.....they pick up a $30 Harmony at Best Buy and think they found the Holy Grail because one button turns on both their TV and receiver.