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mx-700/Sidekick and special Hex code needed
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Post 1 made on Friday May 8, 2009 at 23:48
hdtvluvr
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OK, I have a need to repeat a part of hex code for Vol + and Vol - for a macro. The vol is for a Yamaha RX-V3900. I want to change volume as part of a macro but selecting the vol + (or -) within a macro only provides for a single quick click. To get around this in the past, I repeated the click 5 times for vol + and 3 times for vol - . This worked fine on my RX-V992. However, the 3900 increases volume by 0.5 db per click. In order to change the volume by several db, I added Vol + in the macro 7 times and Vol - 3 times. This is still not acceptable - it takes too long to send Vol + 7 times. What I would like to do is create a hex code with the 7 copies of the repeating section for Vol + and 3 copies of of the vol - so that it will run since holding the button down in macro mode doesn't cause a repeat.

Then if I add this to a button in mx-editor, I can use it in a macro and it should run quicker than the individual steps in a macro. Isn't this assumption correct?

Can someone help in creating a hex code as described above? And explain how it is created?
I'm not sure what the difference is between std and extended IR codes, so I don't know which one needs to be used. How long can the hex code be for mx editor?


Here is the hex code:
Vol + Extended IR Code
0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47

Vol + Std IR Code
0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47

Vol Extended IR Code
0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47

Vol Std IR Code
0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
Post 2 made on Saturday May 9, 2009 at 13:22
johnsfine
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This is your "Std" Vol+ signal, using color to identify the structure of the pronto hex string.

0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47

The orange part is the "one time" part of the signal. The green part is the "repeating" part of the signal.

To be a valid Pronto hex string, the red number must be the hex value of half the length of the orange part and the blue number must be half the length of the green part.

On an ordinary button, the remote would send the orange part once and send the green part as long as you hold the button.

But in a macro, the remote will send the orange part once and send the green part some number of times. I don't know how many and I don't know whether a longer green part would be sent the same or fewer times.

The amount the volume goes up depends on how many times the green part is sent, but it probably isn't linear (twice as many probably won't be exactly twice as much volume increase). You will need to experiment a bit.

One approach is add copies of the green part into the orange part, adjusting the value of the red number.

0000 006D 002A 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47 0155 0055 0015 0E47 0155 0055 0015 0E47 0155 0055 0015 0E47 0155 0055 0015 0E47

Here I added four copies of the green part into the orange part and added 8 to the red number. If I guess that in a macro the remote sends the green part 3 times, then before this change there would be 3 copies of the "repeat" part of the signal sent, but after this change there would be 7 copies.

Another method would be to add copies of the green part into itself and adjust the blue number:

0000 006D 0022 0006 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47 0155 0055 0015 0E47 0155 0055 0015 0E47

Here I added two copies of the green part into itself and added 4 to the blue number. If I guess that in a macro the remote sends the green part 3 times and that making the green part longer doesn't change that rule, then before this change there would be 3 copies of the "repeat" part of the signal sent, but after this change there would be 9 copies.

On May 8, 2009 at 23:48, hdtvluvr said...
selecting the vol + (or -) within a macro only provides for a single quick click.

I'm not 100% sure, but a think one copy of the "one time" part of the signal plus a few copies of the "repeat" part will be interpreted by the device as all just one click. If there are more than those few copies of the repeat part, that should count as more than one click.

What I would like to do is create a hex code with the 7 copies of the repeating section for Vol +

You want 7 clicks of Vol. Maybe that is 7 copies of the repeating part, but probably not. You'll need to experiment.

Then if I add this to a button in mx-editor, I can use it in a macro and it should run quicker than the individual steps in a macro. Isn't this assumption correct?

I think so, but the mx-editor doesn't always behave the way I expect. There is no substitute for testing.

Can someone help in creating a hex code as described above? And explain how it is created?

I hope the above was understandable.

I'm not sure what the difference is between std and extended IR codes, so I don't know which one needs to be used.

I don't know either. Which one works for a single click of volume? They are very different codes.

How long can the hex code be for mx editor?

I have no clue.
OP | Post 3 made on Saturday May 9, 2009 at 14:27
hdtvluvr
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On May 9, 2009 at 13:22, johnsfine said...
One approach is add copies of the green part into the orange part, adjusting the value of the red number.

0000 006D 002A 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47 0155 0055 0015 0E47 0155 0055 0015 0E47 0155 0055 0015 0E47 0155 0055 0015 0E47

Another method would be to add copies of the green part into itself and adjust the blue number:

0000 006D 0022 0006 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47 0155 0055 0015 0E47 0155 0055 0015 0E47

I copied each and pasted them into mx editor as a "learned" function. I then moved them to a button and downloaded to the remote. A single key press for either code still only changes the volume by 0.5 db. If I hold the button it will repeat and raise the volume until released. Therefore, I know the code is valid - it just doesn't 'repeat' on a single key press.

I will try the Ext IR code (not modified) and see what it does differently.

Oh and thanks for responding so quick.
OP | Post 4 made on Saturday May 9, 2009 at 15:46
hdtvluvr
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Well, I had a thought that maybe the code would act different in a macro than just on a learned button alone. It does but doesn't act as expected.

Both of your versions increase vol 1 db when used in a macro.

I modified both further and neither still changes vol more than 1 db:
For version 1, if I add 4 additional copies of the green and change the red # from 002A to 0032 (an additional 8) I still get a 1 db vol change in a macro.

For version 2, if I add 2 additional copies of the green and change the blue # from 0006 to 000A (an additional 4) it also gives a 1 db vol change in a macro.

Your version is better than the original 0.5 db change. I could add the button the the macro 3 times like I did before but it sure would be nice if 1 iteration of the code could change the vol + by 3 db. Any other ideas?
Post 5 made on Saturday May 9, 2009 at 22:18
johnsfine
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Try adding a larger number of copies of the repeat part (each way, we don't yet know which way works better).
OP | Post 6 made on Sunday May 10, 2009 at 01:32
hdtvluvr
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Here is what I've done. I've taken the Std vol + and added 20 additional copies of the last 4 words (21 copies of the word total).

The 1st way means red becomes 004A and blue stays 0002.
The 2nd way means red stays 0022 and blue becomes 002A.

Both of these codes still only change the volume up by 1 db.

I used the original Ext Vol + hex as a learned key and it behaved like the original Std Vol + as a learned key. A quick press was 0.5 db and press and hold advanced the volume.
I don't know if it is worth a try to use the Ext Vol + and create the same experiment but that'll have to wait until later.
Post 7 made on Sunday May 10, 2009 at 08:09
johnsfine
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On May 10, 2009 at 01:32, hdtvluvr said...
Here is what I've done. I've taken the Std vol + and added 20 additional copies of the last 4 words (21 copies of the word total).

The 1st way means red becomes 004A and blue stays 0002.
The 2nd way means red stays 0022 and blue becomes 002A.

Both of these codes still only change the volume up by 1 db.

I don't understand why it behaves that way. 20 extra copies is enough that I'm pretty sure the device would go up more than two vol steps. My best guess is that the MX editor somehow recognizes a repeating pattern and removes the excess when you import Pronto Hex, so it doesn't really send what the Pronto Hex says to send.

If you do have time to experiment more, maybe changing the delay value (the 0E47 on the end of each repeat) would help. Maybe making it much larger (maybe about 1C00) will get more vol change with fewer repeats. Maybe making it much smaller (maybe 0700) might make the MX remote send more repeats in a macro. Maybe making it moderately different across copies (0C00, 0E00, 1000, etc.) in a non repeating pattern, would stop the pattern recognition that the MX editor might be doing that might be the reason adding copies didn't help.

For example:

0000 006D 0032 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0C00 0155 0055 0015 0E00 0155 0055 0015 0C00 0155 0055 0015 1000 0155 0055 0015 0C00 0155 0055 0015 1000 0155 0055 0015 0E00 0155 0055 0015 0C00 0155 0055 0015 0E00

I'm pretty much guessing. There are too many unknowns interacting for a systematic approach.
OP | Post 8 made on Sunday May 10, 2009 at 14:05
hdtvluvr
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Well, I checked again today and both of the versions in your original post does change the vol by 1 db.

In your 1st version I changed OE47 to 1COO in each of the 5 repeat sections. The macro changed the vol by 0.5 db.

So I decided to try your version 2.

I changed 0E47 to 1C00 in each of the 3 repeats and the macro went back to changing the vol to 0.5 DB.

I changed 0E47 to 0700 in each of the 3 repeats and the macro went back to changing the vol to 0.5 DB.


Then I tried the version in your last post. It changes the volume by 2 db. This is getting closer to what I need. Any idea how to add sections to get the additional 1 db?

If I am reading your latest version correctly, you are adding the last 4 words to the body 8 times - changing the red number and then ultimately changing the last word of the green from the original 0E47 to 0E00. Why the change on the timing word?
Post 9 made on Sunday May 10, 2009 at 14:44
johnsfine
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On May 10, 2009 at 08:09, johnsfine said...
My best guess is that the MX editor somehow recognizes a repeating pattern and removes the excess when you import Pronto Hex

Your results seem to be supporting that guess.

On May 10, 2009 at 14:05, hdtvluvr said...
Then I tried the version in your last post. It changes the volume by 2 db. This is getting closer to what I need. Any idea how to add sections to get the additional 1 db?

Just add more sections and keep varying the delay value.

If I am reading your latest version correctly, you are adding the last 4 words to the body 8 times - changing the red number

0000 006D 0032 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0C00 0155 0055 0015 0E00 0155 0055 0015 0C00 0155 0055 0015 1000 0155 0055 0015 0C00 0155 0055 0015 1000 0155 0055 0015 0E00 0155 0055 0015 0C00 0155 0055 0015 0E00

Notice the delay values (the ones now in red). I added eight copies of the repeat chunk, but not eight identical copies. I made three different versions and added them in a non repeating sequence.

I was guessing that the MX editor looks for repeating patterns in the non repeating part of the data and throws them away. So I changed the pattern just to confuse it, so it wouldn't throw anything away. Probably it has a simple enough pattern detector that I didn't need to change nearly as far, nor vary the change in such a complex way. But I wanted to be sure I had the best chance to fool that pattern detector.

Your other test results seem to indicate changing the delay a lot (up to 1C00 or down to 0700) makes a difference and annoyingly in either direction it makes things worse. It is still possible a smaller change would make it better rather than worse. But that doesn't seem to be the best line of investigation.

The small change (up to 1000 and down to 0C00) that apparently fools the pattern detector in the MX editor apparently doesn't make anything much worse. Probably it makes no significant difference in the remote or in the actual device and it just serves its intended purpose of fooling the editor.

I'm pretty sure values very close together, such as 0E46, 0E47 and 0E48 would all be treated as the same value by the MX editor, so they couldn't fool that pattern detector. Your test results confirm my estimate that 0C00, 0E00 and 1000 are far enough apart to not be treated as the same number.

You might want to check whether a small difference would have been enough, such as 0E07, 0E47 and 0E87. I suspect those aren't far enough apart, but I'm not sure.

Last edited by johnsfine on May 10, 2009 14:52.
OP | Post 10 made on Sunday May 10, 2009 at 20:35
hdtvluvr
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Well, I checked using a small difference and it didn't work. I also tried to add an additional 8 copies varying delay values. That didn't work regarding increasing the vol more than 2 db.

So, this is what I've done.
1. Created a button on the remote labeled Vol + (for +1 db) and added the following hex:
0000 006D 0022 0006 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47 0155 0055 0015 0E47 0155 0055 0015 0E47

2. Created a button on the remote labeled Vol++ (for +2 db) and added the following hex:
0000 006D 0032 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0C00 0155 0055 0015 0E00 0155 0055 0015 0C00 0155 0055 0015 1000 0155 0055 0015 0C00 0155 0055 0015 1000 0155 0055 0015 0E00 0155 0055 0015 0C00 0155 0055 0015 0E00

3. Created a button on the remote labeled Vol- (for -1 db) and added the following hex:
0000 006D 0022 0006 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47 0155 0055 0015 0E47 0155 0055 0015 0E47

4. Created a button on the remote labeled Vol-- (for -2 db) and added the following hex:
0000 006D 0032 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0C00 0155 0055 0015 0E00 0155 0055 0015 0C00 0155 0055 0015 1000 0155 0055 0015 0C00 0155 0055 0015 1000 0155 0055 0015 0E00 0155 0055 0015 0C00 0155 0055 0015 0E00

Then in the macro for VolUP:
Vol++
Vol++
Vol+

Which will increase volume by 5 db.

Then in the macro VolDN
Vol--
Vol-

Which will decrease volume by 3 db.

By clicking VolUP and VolDN in a specific sequence one can get the db to change 2 db.

Lets say volume is -25db. VolUp increases it to -20, VolDN will decrease it to -23. Another VolUP will get you -18 and VolDN will get you -21. A plus or minus 2 -3 db change seems to work well in my theater.

I appreciate all of your help. I do have 1 further question if you have time. Is there a way to concatenate the 2 X Vol++ and 1 X Vol+ into a single code so it would send faster? Or would it actually send faster?

Last edited by hdtvluvr on May 10, 2009 20:50.
Post 11 made on Monday May 11, 2009 at 08:42
johnsfine
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On May 10, 2009 at 20:35, hdtvluvr said...
Is there a way to concatenate the 2 X Vol++ and 1 X Vol+ into a single code so it would send faster? Or would it actually send faster?

The basic rules of the Pronto Hex string are pretty simple. The position I marked in red in the first example gives half the length of the "one time" part and the position I marked in blue gives half the length of the repeat part.

If you concatenate multiple signals, only the last signal can have its repeat part represented in the Pronto Hex repeat part. But the actual device can't know or care whether the repeat part of the signal is represented in the repeat part of the Pronto hex. It just knows how many times the repeat part of the signal gets sent. You already have seen how to include some number of copies of the repeat part of the signal in the one time part of the Pronto Hex.

So after some number of copies of the repeat part of the first signal, the one time part of the Pronto Hex could continue with the one time part of the next signal, and so on.

I don't understand why you couldn't get the MX to send more copies of the repeat part to get more than 2 db. Maybe you did it wrong (making the MX editor see a repeat pattern that it removed) or maybe the MX editor enforces some limit on either the string size or the total duration of the one time part of a signal it imports from Pronto Hex. I don't know its limits.

In Pronto Hex, you should be able to concatenate signals as you requested. But it is hard to imagine any version of limits in the MX editor that wouldn't be a more severe limit on concatenating signals than on adding a few more signal repeat parts to the Pronto Hex one time part.

So in theory you could do it. But my guess is whatever prevented getting over 2 db the direct way will also prevent getting over 2 db this way.
OP | Post 12 made on Monday May 11, 2009 at 14:24
hdtvluvr
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Thanks for all of your help. When I get time I may revisit this issue and attempt to concatenate the codes into 1 hex string. Creating, downloading and testing takes quite a lot of time.

It would be nice if someone knew the answers to the questions you posed regarding hex string lengths, ability to detect repeats or limits to duration.


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