Since I am interested in the Mx-450 and none are available locally to try out, I went to Best Buy to try out the similar URC R50.

The first thing I noticed, compared to the pictures on line and on the box, is that there was no clock adjacent to the battery level indicator, no background wallpaper beneath the soft buttons, and different icons as well as different colored icon backgrounds. The R50 actually has no wallpaper. It is plain white, not the mountain wallpaper shown in the illustrations.

I was also very disappointed in the database library of the R50 and probably the MX-450. Although discrete on and off codes were not available for my existing URC-300 for my cable box, my Sony DVD player, and my Sony DVR with a 160 gig hard drive, I expected it to be in the database of the R50 (and probably the MX-450).

I guess the only way to obtain discrete on and off codes for the above units is to consider something like the MX-810. Now that URC has made Amazon an authorized dealer of the MX-810 at a reasonable price I may consider getting it. I am just worried about what I have read about its horrible software here at this forum and elsewhere. I wonder why URC has not upgraded and improved the software very much to date. I guess the MX-880 is URC's solution to the MX-810 if you are willing to spend another $100.

I read Daniel Tonks fine review of the R50.

I just want to add that I was able to override the preprogrammed soft buttons from the database for a device with learned commands. In other words, you are not really stuck with the key arrangement from the database. When you add a learned command to the programmed command of a soft key, an L will appear in front of the P telling you that the learned command will override the programmed command.

Although the 30 main screen icons plus the 52 channel icons for favorites are relatively nice the light blue with black text icons for every other device page is very boring.

Since you will probably be using and looking at these device pages most of your time, why spend the extra money for this color remote control. The two-color screen is as dull as a monochrome screen. There are no options to add additional colors to these key icons.

Sure, you can learn overtop of a preprogrammed codes, but you can't for instance INSERT a new command between existing LCD buttons, or delete a preprogrammed code and shuffle everything else forward... which is fine if you don't mind things being in no particular order, but if you want commands in certain spots you're stuck doing it the hard way.

I commented on the 8 plain colored buttons that are a part of the favorite channel icon set - it would have been nice to be able to use those in devices as well.

Regarding Amazon as an authorized dealer of the MX-810, that authorization does not extend to their affiliate resellers. When Amazon begins selling the MX-810 themselves, it will be at the $400 retail price and no affiliate sales will be allowed. Same goes for the MRF-260 and MX-450 (see their MX-450 page for how the other two will be eventually. So, if you're seeing a sub-$400 price on Amazon right now, it's from one of their affiliates that is NOT authorized.

BTW, the MX-450 has software available that allows you to not only save your files, but update the database as well.

The MX-810 software can be made to pretty much do whatever you want, but how that's done is not explained anywhere (expect perhaps on this forum).

Mike

What I am saying is that you can still override all preprogrammed soft key codes with learned commands in the exact order you want them but still retain all of the preprogrammed hard key codes for the device. That way you don't have to teach the hard keys for the device, just the soft keys. I think that saves a little time. Do you agree?

Ouch, I hate to say this but that sounds like price fixing to me. The retailer is being told by the manufacturer exactly what the price must be in order to become an authorized seller of their products.

I guess it protects all the installer/retailers, but it eliminates competition, an essential part of free enterprise in a free country.

That is in no way price fixing, flash214. A manufacturer can limit who, where and how their products are distributed and sold as they see fit. They are also permitted to place a policy on MAP and dictate what will be sold on the net and with regional restrictions. It's all quite legit and does not harm the consumer in any way. If you don't like the price or distribution method you have options to obtain elsewhere or not at all and seek another viable product.

To be clear, price fixing (in short) relates to competing companies "fixing" the value of a particular product or service. Competing company is the key and this is not the case here.

Call it whatever you want. I truly believe that more retailers should start being more competitive (and not sell merchandise at the MSRP) before they become victims in this depressed economy.

I haven't actually called it anything but was merely pointing out that stating this as price fixing is false and didn't want anyone to be mislead or draw conclusions based upon that statement. I won't go into my usual diatribe and draw upon my knowledge of economics including such topics as supply-side economics, consumer theory, Marxism, etc. as well as a very clear concept about retail procedures but what may interest you are the theories of substitution and income effect...now that is some good reading for sure.

Well, you could potentially save learning up to 37 keys out of 85 total, but there's three things that could negate the time savings somewhat: finding the correct code; having to potentially delete "longer" preset labels before inputting your own; and having to potentially "hide" unused preset keys if the database ends up using more LCD buttons than your device requires.

My final strategy would invove a combination of database codes and learned codes anyways, especially for devices such as my Marantz receiver which (due to toggle bits) has always responded better to URC's database codes.

Also it takes a VERY LONG TIME to completely label/learn all of the LCD keys by scratch, so I really wouldn't recommend doing this unless you absolutely must have everything in a specific place - whether you start off using the database or not.

I actually came up with an Excel planner that helps you plan out LCD button positions and labels if anyone is interested.

I took several management, finance and economics courses in graduate school for a masters degree in Business Management to supplement my BS in Electrical Engineering.

As a result, I too have some knowledge of economics and I disagree with your definition of price fixing. Manufacturers can also have a part in price fixing as well as retailers.

This situation sounds very similar to what happened in a CD price-fixing case. Companies used MAP to keep prices high and protect independent music retailers from rising competition from discount chains such as Wal-Mart, Circuit City and Best Buy. They believed the policy was pro-competitive and geared toward keeping more retailers, large and small, in business. May sound okay but it is illegal.

I recommend that you go to the following link for additional information:

[Link: usatoday.com]

I agree with what you are saying above and agree with what you said in your review:

1. That it would be so much easier to get the remote the way you wanted if the remote allowed the moving of soft keys.

2. That the remote needs more background and icon colors.

3. That P codes should be selected by device & brand, as well as model number.

flash...it seems we have nearly identical educational backgrounds and in hopes to keep this thread as off topic as possible :-) ... I am familiar with the suit you are referring to, paid close attention to it and I do agree that was price fixing. The difference if you ask me, and going back to my original post regarding competing companies, is that in the CD price fixing case several competing companies were underhandedly working in concert to fix prices of a product in hopes to drive up prices and increase profits overall. With URC, who (what competing company) are they in agreements with regarding price fixing? It seems none. They are merely limiting how their products are distributed and/or sold at the retail level.

Bingo....

several "resellers" of a product conspiring to control MAP = price fixing

manufacturer of product enforcing MAP to protect all dealers = something other than price fixing :)

....I don't have a single degree, but do possess the ability to not allow my emotions to enter discussions. Which in turn prevents me from reading into and/or twisting terminology/definitions to suit my arguement.

I can see why they got rid of the background photo[s] - judging by the printed vinyl sample they'd be almost impossible to see, since so little shows through. It took me a while to even figure out that was some sort of mountain background.