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Stunningly Poor Design by Phillips !
This thread has 13 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Monday February 9, 2004 at 12:51
FireAx
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I received an iPronto last Friday and while I've had no technical difficulties with it, I am astonished by Phillips corporate decision to doom this device by not spending any money on it. Allow me to explain.

I have been in the computer software development business since 1986. I've been a project manager long enough to recognize user interface deficiencies and what it takes to overcome them.

The iPronto is a throwback to the days of DOS, when computer users were dedicated "first wave" riders willing to spend the time to learn arcane commands like copy c:\doc\*.* a:\ .

Those of you who love your iPronto talk about your .icf files and using the "learn" function. Good for you.

You folks obviously have the time, patience, and intelligence to hack through the process of adding data to your iPronto.

I have very little doubt that the bean counters at Phillips decided NOT to spend any additional development money on the iPronto, thus the crappy "do it yourself" user interface. A fully developed interface would be one heck of a lot easier to use.

For example:
A: When first initialized, the iPronto should ask for an inventory of your AV equipment, by product name and model. It would then automatically set up those devices using a database of codes (which any decently funded tech lab could develop within a few months) and that would be it.
B: If you need to add a device, you should be able to simply choose from a menu.

This is all very doable. So why didn't Phillips do it? Why do I have to spend hour after hour using the "learn" function. Why should trial and error be 50% of the user experience with the iPronto?

Phillips could have had a really nice piece of work here, but they chose to save a few pennies. In the end they'll lose money and blame the consumer.

-Rob
Post 2 made on Monday February 9, 2004 at 13:26
Anthony
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A: When first initialized, the iPronto should ask for an inventory of your AV equipment, by product name and model. It would then automatically set up those devices using a database of codes (which any decently funded tech lab could develop within a few months) and that would be it.

B: If you need to add a device, you should be able to simply choose from a menu.

It is easy,the people that buy and enjoy Prontos don't want that. I got into the Pronto because I wanted a remote that was "open" for me to do what I want. Back then there was the Take control and I could have chosen it. On the other hand the TC is gone and the Pronto line-up is still around. To me that means people want a remote that is them, and are willing to live with the consequences (longer, harder) set-up. There cannot be one remote that suites all people. On the other hand I don't know about the iPronto, but on the rest of the Prontos there is the default config and if you download it to the remote (or if you don't upload your own config) you can use the remote to do what you want
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Post 3 made on Monday February 9, 2004 at 20:55
grs
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You both have it. The ipronto (at its cost of more than many decent laptops) should have a rather complete menu of default devices (at the very least, this could be online for download to the PC and then upload to the ipronto). Better yet, why not emulate plug and play and recognize what devices are at the other end of the remote and set up defaults accordingly. For those who want to putz around or expand horizons after using defaults for awhile, then get into the tedious personal setups/programming.
OP | Post 4 made on Monday February 9, 2004 at 23:13
FireAx
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If I could discover the names and addresses of the UI designers of the iPronto, I would send them copies of Steve Krug's excellent book "Don't Make Me Think: A Common Sense Approach to Web Usability."

Steve's central theme is that a well designed UI (web page or otherwise) should cause the user the least amount of mental strain, pain, frustration, or confusion.

If you've ever designed anything for someone else to use, just watch a total stranger attempting to use it for the first time. It will become clear to you that what you understand and take for granted is not universal.

The folks who hammered the UI for the iPronto knew that what they had was only half-baked. If the didn't, they're from another planet. The installation interface for the Proto Pro TSU700 (which I also have) is one heck of a lot better. It at least has a "brand" category to get you started.

If you believe that the iPronto is as good as it gets, I believe you're settling to way too little.
If I were in charge of developing the iPronto's software I would set up a tech group who's only function would be the collection of every remote control code, or piece of consumer electronics available for the purpose of building a reliable database. Once that exists, the rest is simply a matter of decent UI programming. Of course, this costs money.

If the only people who buy Prontos are people who enjoy poking around three level deep nested menus and figuring out which of the six possible variations of codes will work, then the product line is doomed.

There just aren't enough of these kind of users to sustain a product, no matter what the price.


-Rob
Post 5 made on Tuesday February 10, 2004 at 05:29
wattsn
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I have to say I agree to a degree with what has been said abouve about the half baked UI on the iPronto. However, I am one of those that enjoys developing the ccf's, pcf's, icf's, whatever.

What I will say though is that the device database does exist, just like with the ProntoPro (and PPENG). Has this been forgotten or overlooked. You can choose your device mfr, eqpt and codeset within the device properties page for each device. This enabled me to immediately use most of the standard device pages from the default icf with some further work to tweak it.

So yes, I agree that a more refined UI would certainly not go amiss but I do think that at the iPronto level Philips may well have taken a view that it would be a Custom Installer device only and not an end user proposition (from a programming point of view). Indeed, I do remember reading this to be the case before it was launched. No excuses for Philips here in delivering an incomplete product but the end result is still pretty damn impressive.
Post 6 made on Tuesday February 10, 2004 at 11:31
Anthony
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|If you've ever designed anything for someone else to use, just watch a total stranger attempting to use it for the first time. It will become clear to you that what you understand and take for granted is not universal.

I have, and you are right, but that is why I like the Pronto lineup it gives me the ability to create a UI that is suited for the need.

If the only people who buy Prontos are people who enjoy poking around three level deep nested menus and figuring out which of the six possible variations of codes will work, then the product line is doomed.

also people who pay others that enjoy doing it


So yes, I agree that a more refined UI would certainly not go amiss

that I can agree with




This message was edited by Anthony on 02/10/04 22:41.
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OP | Post 7 made on Tuesday February 10, 2004 at 22:11
FireAx
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Your points are all very well taken. I now recall that this is an item most people pay an installer to program for them. If an end user were given a fully programmed and debugged iPronto, then I can see where an easily accessible programming UI is viewed as unnecessary.

As an old computer nerd, I just can't imagine paying anybody to program a remote for me.

I've been looking at the Pronto and iPronto products from the consumer's perspective. I'm not unfamiliar with IR control, having designed and built presentation and training rooms.

I will admit that at the end of the day my brain is toast (why does it seem to get crispier as I get older?) and I was hoping the iPronto would allow me to be mentally lazy by providing a simple menu system for selecting my AV components.

There is no argument that a flexible system like the iPronto is a boon for advanced users and talented folks who can take advantage of it.

I do feel sorry for the end user to pays for one of these things pre-programmed and then later wants to add a new component on their own.

-Rob
Post 8 made on Tuesday February 10, 2004 at 22:48
Anthony
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As an old computer nerd, I just can't imagine paying anybody to program a remote for me.

same here, but as someone that has done some programming I know that you cannot write a program without learning the programming language.
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Post 9 made on Wednesday February 11, 2004 at 11:26
ChrisA
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This thread has some constructive comments contained in it so I thought I would just add some of my own. I am a long time Pronto user (basically all models up to the Pro. I have just ordered the ipronto as it looks like it's moving forward.
Philips are good at invention (you might be quite suprised if you new how many patents they have secured over the years) but it appears that they have a tendency to weakness in bringing new products to market, particularly when it comes to reliability (eg: DVD recorders and Ipronto). This alas tends to mar thier reputation. I would like to suggest that they invest in a good reliability program to iron out as many of the problems during the development phase as possible. I make this comment from experience in this field having spent many years in both manufacturing and I.T. which included working on reliability projects for world class manufacturers around the globe (wearing my manufacturing hat). I might like to suggest that a re-think on front line customer support would not go amiss either (wearing my I.T. hat). I stress the fact that I have no conection with Philips nor am I touting for business!
Post 10 made on Thursday February 12, 2004 at 14:24
John Mitchell
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I work in the A/V field, installing high-end home theatres. We have sold numerous iPronto's already, and now that the iPronto platform is actually (finally) stable (after that last firmware upgrade! whew!) we'll be selling more. Every one of our clients loves the operatability of the iPronto, it's look, feel, and of course functionality. Has a single one of our clients strained a single brain cell over the UI, or device setup or what have you? No. Why? That's my company's job! :) We took the iPronto, basically threw out the default configuration, and designed from scratch a setup that has graphics designed from in-house, and a clear, clean, straight-forward design-functionality flow to it. Our clients just want it to work, and work WELL. They don't _want_ to know how it works.

So I would not fault Philips to such a degree -- keep in mind the iPronto's primary target market -- Custom Home Theatre installation companies, not the joe consumer! It is the A/V installer that sells the iPronto (usually as a finished, integrated product) to the consumer.

I hear what you're saying -- sure, it's a complex device, with a learning curve. It wouldn't be a bad thing if it was a little 'friendlier' in a couple of areas. But think about this -- although the iPronto is a lot less expensive than Crestron gear, it is not what you would call 'cheaply priced'. Just imagine if Philips had a whole team put together, that did all this R&D, IR database-stuff and what not. How much do you think all their salaries, all this work would cost? And who would pay for it? Philips would pass the cost on to the consumer! If you think it's expensive now, think of how much more it could cost with all that extra stuff.

The fact that the iPronto is basically affordable is a major feature. The fact that it can pull off near-to-Crestron level functionality without the costly, costly Crestron equipment is a big plus. I'd just as soon not have that sucker cost any more than it already does ...
Post 11 made on Thursday February 12, 2004 at 17:42
ChrisKober
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Would you be willing to share an icf that you are talking about? OR maybe some screen shots?
Post 12 made on Friday February 13, 2004 at 11:30
steve36
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John
At the risk of setting a precedent I realise that this is your main business and it takes a lot of work to develop a good configuration file, therefore would you be willing to sell your iPronto ICF?
I mainly mention this as there is a company commercially selling crestron 'templates' on the internet.

Steve
Post 13 made on Saturday February 14, 2004 at 07:56
Stephen Coates
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I have created a complete custom Home Cinema ICF. It was sent to REMOTECENTRAL to be placed on the Files section but it has not appeared yet.
Post 14 made on Tuesday February 24, 2004 at 17:24
MitchellEnt
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First off, I only skimmed this post so my point was probilly already made, but here goes:

The pronto interface is one of the best programming tools I have ever used, as a custom installer! These remotes are designed to be installed by pros. You mentioned you were a computer guy, if I were to design a webpage, I would hire a guy. Even though I'm an A+ Certified Tech and know HTML very well, something that integeral requires a pro, just like a pronto.

I've sold prontos before without configuration, and when you do it that way its not worth half as much. The cool thing about pronto is the customization, and if their was a wizard like you are suggesting, all you would get is a default display with you codes plugged in, thats not the big value of prontos.

Just my two cents


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