I currently have the URC MX-850. I'm thinking about buying the Harmony 890. Logitech (and all the reviews I've read) only ever mention the automated setup process. They never talk about additional customization. I've tried downloading the software to test it myself, but it won't let me use it without actually plugging in the remote. If anybody knows of a review of the programming that is more extensive, please let me know. In the mean time I have several questions about the Harmony 890:

1. Can I make custom macros? My current remote has a macro for turning on/off closed caption. It works by switching the remote to control the tv, opening the tv's on screen menu, navigating through the menu to the closed caption settings, turning it on, and then closing the menu. Can the 890 be programmed with a macro to do this?

2. I've read that the remote will turn on and off devices as you do different activities. Can this be customized by me? For example, if I'm watching a DVD and want to pop over to the TiVo for a second to check a season pass, can I do this without the DVD player being turned off? Like maybe if I press and hold the TiVo button, it does a different version of the command where it leaves the DVD on? Or perhaps if I navigate the remote to the TiVo using the Devices button instead of the Activities button?

3. My receiver doesn't have enough inputs for all my devices, so I added a remote controlled input switch. So for certain devices, I have to set the receiver to one input, and then turn one the input switch and set it to the correct input as well. Can the 890 do this?

4. How customizable are the hard buttons? On my current remote, when I'm on the device page for my audio receiver, I have the prev chan button set to select different speakers and the chan up/down buttons control the levels of that selected speaker. Can this be done with the 890, or would all these controls have to be on the LCD?

5. Can I make new devices from scratch? I have a CD player that didn't come with a remote, but I can actually control nearly everything on it with a remote because it's basically the same device as the version with the remote, just a little less expensive. I managed to find the codes for all the different buttons by searching different universal remote presets. In other words, the buttons on the remote I use to control the CD player are all 100% learned. Can I make a device for the 890 completely from scratch by learning from another remote?

6. How are the buttons on the LCD created? I figure the software makes buttons for the various activities and all that, but what about additional buttons for devices. Is there LCD where the buttons that don't fit on the hard buttons end up? Such as the thumbs up and thumbs down of a TiVo remote, or the closed caption button found on some television remotes? Can I rearrange these buttons, or add and remove them, make new ones that are macros, etc?

7. This remote has been out for a while now. Has anyone heard about a new version coming out anytime soon such as a version of the Harmony One that has RF or another complete tactile version?

You can do sequences of up to 5 commands. If it takes more than 5 commands you'd have to do multiple sequences and button presses. The more common way of doing this is to have 2 activities - one with CC on and one with it off and put the commands to turn it on and off at the beginning of each activity. You can add commands to the entry or exit of each activity. Switching activities between the 2 would run the macros to change the CC state but not change anything else (assuming you use the same devices and settings on both).


You can manually switch inputs by using the Device mode or you can simply
check the option to "leave unused devices on" and when you go to that activity
it won't turn anything off. It will still turn them off when you hit the OFF button though.


If it's IR controlled, yes. It's just another device with inputs and the Harmony will handle it just like any other TV or Receiver.


Harmony has 2 modes - Device and Activity. Each Device and each Activity
has it's own separate button layout. For a Device you can map any command for that device to any hard button or LCD button. Same for each activity except in the Activity you have access to any command from any device in that activity. The only buttons you can't change are the system functions like Activities, OFF, etc. The rest are fair game.


Absolutely - that's why it's called a Learning Remote! Although chances are the Harmony database already has the codes you need.


You have total control over the commands that appear on the LCD (known as Soft buttons). Each activity and each device has its own button configuration. E.g. if you wanted to you could put channel up and channel down on the LCD and use the channel up/down hard buttons for some other command.


Nope.

Wow, thanks for all that information akirby. I'm just a little confused about the response to the first question.



My macro to turn on captions consists of sending the TV's CC command twice and then the Action (menu) command twice. This turns on captions and then clears the menu. To turn captions off, it sends CC five times and then Action (menu) twice. Now, the Action command doesn't really need to be there as the menu will go away on its own after a few moments, but it's just faster this way. Also, at the end of both of those macros, there is a page jump instruction to go to the first page on the remote's TiVo device (I have the CC on/off on the second page since I only use it when I couldn't understand what someone was saying, which is very rare.)

So with that information, I have a few more questions:

1. You said you can sequence up to 5 commands. What about repeating commands? Can I have it set to repeat the CC command 5 times and the Action command 2 times and have it only count as 2 commands?

2. You said the more common way of doing this is with 2 activities. Does this mean that the entry and exit of activities can have more than 5 commands sequenced, or did you mention it because it's just how people usually do it?

3. Can you add page jumps to buttons or macros? Like I mentioned before, my CC on/off macros were on soft buttons on the second LCD page, and at the end of the macros I had it switch the remote to the first page where I had all the common commands (such as the replay button which I would use immediately after turning on CC since the whole point is I missed what someone just said).

1. You may be able to "learn" more than one command to a key. This is a standard way of getting over the limitation to five commands in a Sequence.

2, "Activities" for each combination of Devices constitute THE way in which Harmonys operate. They automatically deal with powering and setting inputs, and you can add to them additional commands when they start and end.

So you can add additional commands to the beginning and end of an activity, but is this also limited to five commands, like with macros?

A sequence if limited to 5 commands period, whether they are the same or different. You can have more than 5 commands at the beginning or end of an activity - that's why it's more useful. Sounds like turning CC on could easily be done with a 4 command sequence but turning it off would take 2 sequences.

If you only use CC sometimes, I'd set up a normal Watch TV with no macros. Then I'd setup a "Watch TV CC" that has the commands to turn on CC in activity start and the commands to turn it off in activity exit. If you're in Watch TV and want to turn on CC just select the Watch TV CC activity and the only thing that should change is the CC (assuming you set up both activities identically). To turn off CC just select the normal Watch TV activity again. If you're in Watch TV CC and hit OFF it will turn off CC before shutting down the TV.

No way to control the LCD - it starts on page 1 or goes back to where it was at if you go into another mode and return to activity mode.

Alright, thanks for the information. By the way, do you know exactly how many commands can be put at the enter and exit of an activity? I think the software is flexible enough for my needs, the only question is the remote. The 890 seems pretty nice, but I've heard lots of good things about the One, including statements about how it solved many of the problems with the previous remotes. What are these problems it solved? And why on Earth did they only release a non-RF version?

Photos have been circulated of the circuit board showing that there are spaces (as in exposed contacts), for the Z-Wave and other chips required for RF on the Harmony One. This tells me that the Harmony One was designed from the beginning with RF capabilities and Logitech just decided to remove that feature for the initial release.

I don't really want to wait for a new remote when I don't know when it will come out, but I just hate the idea of buying a several year old design (890) that has already been replaced (One), but just not quite completely (no RF), when a version of the One with RF could possibly be just a couple months away.

What to do... what to do...

Maybe I should just go back to hunting for a good deal on a URC MX-980. Hear that Logitech? You're driving customers away!

There is no limit to the number of Additional Commands When Activity Starts or Ends.
Models previous to the One had problems with the charging base; the One has no problem.
Presumably their research did not find enough demand for a One with RF.
That's interesting about the space for RF components but I don't think it's going to be filled.

You don't really need RF - you can get more functionality and flexibility with an IR repeater. The only advantage of a RF system over an IR repeater is that you don't have to aim the remote at the IR sensor. The advantage of an IR repeater system is that you can use ANY IR remote - any Harmony or any other brand remote including the OEM remotes. If you go with a 890 and RF extender you're stuck with that and if it dies you'd have to replace it with another one or another RF remote which limits your choices and generally costs more.

That's only true if you stay within the realm of what harmony's, and there RF stations are capable of.


There is the added plus of never worrying about things like stray IR from LCD/Plasma displays.

The OP did mention the MX-980 so I'll go on and mention that when using RF in conjunction with the MSC-400. You can design your system to never miss a command. That's something no IR system can promise. Why you may ask...? The MX-980 in this type of system only sends a trigger command to the MSC. The MSC then performs the macro over hard line connections. No interference...no need to continually aim your remote while lengthy macros are being performed. The MSC has the means to queary feedback from devices to ensure operation, and repeat commands if necessary, based on that info. This eliminates the need for help functions..(highly touted function of Harmonys). It also allows you to communicate with a HTPC, and provides a switchable relay contact for lifts, drapes, even automate the placement and removal of an anamorphic lense....(for those wanting 2.35:1 projection without use of zoom). Oh and RS-232 command abilities, that give you access to unthinkable discrete functions.

All of this is well out of reach for the Harmony line of products. But to be fair, this type of functionality is not the status quo for what Harmonys are designed for and/or intended to be able to do. So if you were to compare a RF capable Harmony to a non-RF capable Harmony...there are only two advantages....no need to aim, and no worry of stray IR.


That's a huge advantage IMHO. And I'll most likely add a repeater system (considering the low cost) just on the off chance that something could happen. It would suck to be dead in the water so to speak.


There are deals out there... I stumbled across one a few months ago, and couldn't be happier. ....and before you ask, it was a one time thing. Lets just say, it's good to be friendly to those self centered, money hungry CIs.

:)

Bah.... more and more I feel like Harmony is the right choice. I can't get the 890 though, it's too old and will soon be replaced. It's just driving me crazy that Logitech is being so slow and silent about an RF version of the One. If it existed I would buy it right now. Seriously, what are they doing over there?

Part of me wants to buy the Harmony One right now and just deal with not having RF until the new version comes out, then buy that and eBay the first one. I could buy it at Crutchfield since they give full refunds so if living without RF was too horrible I could get my money back and just wait for the new version. Sigh.

There's nothing to suggest a new One at all, with or without RF.

I still don't understand why you're so hung up on RF control. You won't be able to use the OEM remotes, it costs more and if it dies you're stuck with fixing it or buying a new expensive RF remote.

You can spend $150 once for an IR repeater, use the One now or any other Harmony or other universal remote and switch between them and be able to use the OEM remotes any time you need them. And the only down side is you have to point the remote in the general direction of the IR receiver.

I put in an IR repeater system 4 years ago when I built the home theater. I went from a 659 to a 720 to the One and I've used the OEM remotes from time to time. It works great and if I wanted to switch from the One to something else I can do that.

I have been following this thread with interest looking for more detail on the RF portion of the Harmony 890. I recently purchased one with the understanding it was a learning remote and anticipating being able to replace some of my RF remotes with one unit.

I currently have several RF remotes which are all RF direct devices

1) ceiling fan/light
2) Fireplace
3) Bell Expressvu/Dish Networks PVR TV2
4) Bose 4800

I was dismayed to learn that it seems the RF portion of the remote seems to only supports its own repeater of IR signals. Please tell me I am wrong and I just haven't found how to implement this feature!!

Failing that are there some real RF univeral learning remotes out there?

Nope, sorry, you're right


You sound like you've been mislead somewhere. Did someone say that your Harmony could learn RF..? And...to answer your question: There is no such animal as a RF learning remote.