Yes, without an Harmony, one needs to avoid (don't buy) "discrete-challenged" devices (Toggle/Cycling-Only Actuated devices (TOAD)).

for the record i'm not on the anti harmony band wagon so lets not get on our haunches just yet.

i'm only going by the many complaints i've read from harmony owners over the years, i've never programmed one myself.

so you can drag and drop any command FROM ANY DEVICE to ANY hard button? ie: you could have your remote set to DVR and have PLAY as a regular DVR command but then have STOP perform the RECORD command for your DVD recorder? or can you have PLAY as the regular command but then set a one second press and hold command on the same PLAY button to perform the RECORD command for your DVD Recorder?

i was under the impression the harmony SW automatically assigned all the commands for a device to the appropriately labeled button, without the option of changing them around if you dont like the layout, or more importantly the ability to have commands from different devices assigned to hard buttons on the same page.

Wow - I didn't realize you were that ignorant about the harmonys (and that's not meant in a derogatory manner).

The harmony software will INITIALLY assign commands to the various hard buttons and in some cases the LCD soft buttons when you setup an activity. e.g. If you're doing watch a DVD with an A/V receiver it will assign the transport controls to the corresponding DVD transport controls and the volume commands to the A/V receiver volume commands, etc. However - you can edit the button assignments any time you want.

An activity consists of a collection of devices (your choice) and any button (except the ones I mentioned above) can be programmed to perform any function for any device in the activity. You can map Volume Up to Channel Down if you want. And you can create sequences of up to 5 commands from multiple devices and assign those to buttons (limited macros).

The only thing it can't do is have one button do different things based on how it is pressed.

When I select Watch a DVD it turns on the DVD player, TV and receiver (unless they're already on in which case it does nothing), puts the TV and receiver on the correct input (if necessary), sets the light controller to scene 2 and starts the DVD. The transport and channel controls operate the DVD, the volume control operates the A/V receiver volume and I have custom LCD buttons to control the lights. If I hit pause the DVD pauses and the lights come up to 100% - when I hit play the DVD starts playing and the lights go back down to their previous level (scene 2).

When I hit Watch a DVD - if the TV did not go to the correct input, I press HELP and it either automatically fixes it or it asks questions and sends commands based on the answers until the problem is fixed.

All of that was setup in about 20 minutes including adding the devices.

Wow - I didn't realize you were that ignorant about the common courtesies when communicating with other people. i don't think anyone appreciates being refered to as "ignorant" at any given time, especially with a "WOW-I didn't realize you were that" in front of it.

the press and hold commands are VERY useful, so the lack there of would be a deal breaker for me personally. furthermore i dont like the button layout of any hamrony remote (thats personal preference of course). also, i havent "fealt up" the harmony ONE as of yet (this is the one i'm considering) but any other i've held feels like a cheap, creaking, POS.


here- enough said.

[Link: remotecentral.com]

Wow - I can't believe you're that uninformed about harmonys!

(feel better now?)

I'd have to agree with a lot of the stuff OTADH said in this post. I came from the Jp1 world using an 8810. I tried 3 different harmony remotes (550, 676 and 880). I took all of them back as they just didn't do what I wanted, give me the programming flexibility I wanted nor did they do the activities consistently. The 880 was 10x the price of my 8810 but didn't provide the same programming flexibility. The LCD screen was a huge advantage, but I had a hard time reading it.

Build quality of all 3 harmony remotes did not seem to be good. That is, light weight, buttons sticking, poorly lay out (especially on 880), etc. I did look at a One and the layout and feel of the remote is much better than the ones I tried. I'm not convinced it is as solid as the URC remotes. I have a $20 URC R6 remote which feels solid even though I doubt it has the same build quality as the upper end URC remotes. A lot of this is personal preference of course and there is obviously many who are happy with their harmony remotes. IF you're happy with the remote then don't worry about those dissing it. It does what you want and that is all that matters in the end.

After trying the harmony remotes, I ended up buying an MX900 from an authorized dealer. It's the remote for me. I have more programming control over it and can make it do exactly what I want. very solid build quality too. It has survived spills, being tossed around, falls and looks brand new. Saying that, I don't think it's for everyone either. THere is a learning curve to set it up and it would frustrate many. obviously the reason it's aimed at custom installers for the most part.

oh, and I am aware of a number of custom installers that use Harmony remotes for their customers...and many that use URC, etc....

yes, thankyou. :-)

and why would you be so taken aback when i clearly stated i've never owned one? my opinions are based on the MANY complaints i've read here over the years. although i will admit said complaints have subsided, so i would think harmony has stepped up their game a little. it would seem that way in reference to the latest "ONE" model anyways.

Sorry about that. I probably overreacted because of the previous replies from CIs who were spreading misinformation. I really was trying to educate you and the others reading this who don't know a lot about Harmony remotes or have been told things that are not correct.

I didn't say you were - I just asked you a question.



No Harmony user could truthfully complain that the Harmony cannot assign any command to any button.


Not only "Yes you can" - but that's a basic part of the essential principle, and advantage, of Harmonys!


Again, if that impression has come from a Harmony owner he can never have actually used it!
It assigns commands initially but then you can juggle them and the devices around any old way you like.

I knew I shouldn't have taken the bait!

Here we go again... You guys should have stopped when the dust settled the first time.

RC lurkers...: A Harmony is no better than any other remote in the market for controlling "TOAD"s. There is however a build in "Help" button that will aid you in determining whether or not the apropriate devices are powered up for whatever you are trying to control. This of course can be done by pretty much any other programable remote on the market, in one shape or form. Such a function is more easily set-up with a wizard based remote such as a Harmony or a URC MX-810. Mainly because it's done for you, but don't let statements like the one I have quoted above, lead you to believe that a Harmony is the only option for controlling "TOAD"s.

Automatically controlling TOADS is a built-in feature of all Harmony remotes (that's the Smart State feature). The harmony dynamically figures out how to get from the current state to the desired state. To do this with another remote requires state memory (unless the device can be forced into a known state - but not all devices can do this) and a lot of custom code to compare the current state to the desired state and figure out how to get there.

With a harmony you say here is the list of inputs and here is the button(s) to cycle through them and this is the way the device behaves regarding the inputs.

Then you create an activity and tell it this activity needs input A for this device. The remote does everything else.

This is not an argument you can possibly win.

And you guys claim I don't know what I'm talking about. Get your head out of your ass and realize that I'm not arguing anything about what a Harmony can do. Yes, Harmony's have a built in feature that helps the end user figure out whether or not all device desired are in fact powered up. Yes, the Harmony's wizard does all of this programming for you. I've already stated this in my last post. However the all mighty Harmony line is not the only model that does this, and any other programable remote can be configured to do the same. With or without "state memory", also known as "variables".

The member I quoted said:


That is a lie, and once again I'm pulled into this god foresaken forum so others that are not aware (as you are apparently), won't mislead by uneducated posts. If you are trying in fact trying to argue with me about the validity of the above quote, I suggest you do a little research before spouting off about things you obviously don't understand. That being how any other remote other than a Harmony can be configured. Off the top of my head, there are endless pcf. configurations in the files section here at RC that perform functions for the end user exactly the way you believe the Harmony only can, without the modern miracle of "Smart State" technology. I'll assume you know what remote uses that format seeing as you are attempting to argue it's abilities.

Yes, if you're willing to do a lot of programming, or use someone else's programming or get someone else to program it for you then you can get another remote to perform those functions.

But the Harmony does it automatically, out of the box, for free and can be setup and used by anybody in 20 minutes.

People buy Harmonys BECAUSE they don't require programming - that's the whole point.

Why are you still here?

So now you agree...? I just had to say it twice...? I don't get it. And FYI, it's Logitech that's doing the programming for you. It doesn't happen spontaneously. So you are in fact using someone else's programming. Which is the same way the URC MX-810 or the Philips TSU-9200 do it. It's nothing special... wizard programming.


That has no bearing on what I posted, quoted, or replied to today. We understand Harmonys are easy to set-up. No one has denied that. Except maybe the people posting in this forum looking for help.


No the point was yet another Harmony user was making misleading statements, and needed to be put in check. I wouldn't be here if people would stop trying to mislead, and/or take every opprotunity to state and/or imply Harmonys are the only models to possess certain functions and abilities. Hell... I'd already be gone if you didn't try to argue with me.

For crying out loud, guys. Hasn't this gone on long enough? Okay...there are people who come here to "educate" those of us that may be misled by those of us that are trying to "educate" those that are doing the misleading. Sounds like the lunatics are finally running the asylum.

People need to get it through their thick skulls that:
A. Harmony's have a rightful place in the world of universal remotes...and,
B. Harmony's are not for everyone. Why? Because some people want/need/require more than a Harmony can offer.

Making comparisons between Harmony's and "Hi-End automation solutions" is pointless. A Harmony remote can never compare because it wasn't designed to compete in that class. If all you want/need/require is the ability to control your A/V components in a simple "no-brainer" manner, then the Harmony is probably one of the best choices in it's class. Can anyone argue with this?
If, however, you want the ability to control your "Living Environment" then you shouldn't be considering a Harmony. Again, can anyone argue this point?

This thread has been enjoyable, but now has gotten to the point of irritation. Neither side seems to want to admit that no one is truly "wrong".

Why are Harmony remotes dissed by "pro's"?
Because (in most cases) Harmony remotes can't do what the "pro's" customer needs/wants/requires.

Can we please end this now?