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and here we are....two weeks later. no more a private flame war, but a full wildfire.

as the one who "started it," i would like to report back with an update on my initial post.

i sold my RTI T2-c on eBay for a little over $400. buyer was a CI. buyer happy. seller happy.

i bought my Harmony One (new in box) on eBay for $180. buyer happy. seller happy.

I have done only the most rudimentary programming so far on the Harmony, all i can say so far is that it exceeds my expectations. that "help" program is great...allowing for wrong commands to be corrected in your hand.

little things...backlighting that changes to orange when in device mode. pretty cool. and btw...yes i love device mode.

more impressions to come. hope there's an easy way to import 20-30 favorite channel logos and channel #'s from that web site.

More importantly, i have figured out the source of this pissing contest:

i prefer the Harmony...as do many here....because.......IT GIVES ME CONTROL. (emphasis on the "ME")!!!

that's it!! the RTI took the control away from me. i couldn't do simple things like find remaining time on a movie. or use the xBox Live without the xBox controller.

maybe i just had a poorly set-up RTI. but my friends who are not so into control all have the CI remotes of some sort. but they don't care about swapping equipment. they don't care that when they switch to music, the screen goes up, even though thaey wanted it down. they want one touch plug and play. want a new BluRay player? better call the CI. don't bother hunting down the cheapest price.

i want control. and control of the control to make my own changes.

besides, with 1080p projectors falling in price so fast, it is absurd to me spend that kind of money on a remote. and once again, that annuity stream for the CI is a mortgage to me.

Good to hear all that robster.
Just to splash a little cold water on your enthusiasm - you really ought not be so taken with Devices! They're meant to be used once then forgotten until the next rainy day, and all your affections are meant to be with Activities.
Favourites icons are simplicity itself to download from the site and upload into the One. There is a restriction on the number of them in any one Activity but you can always have several Activities, such as "WatchMovies" or "WatchSports", and that in effect allows you as many as you like.
I hadn't noticed that the backlight changes colour:-)

Good update. Thanks, Robster. I've played with the idea of getting the One and putting the 880 in the bedroom. My ONLY complaint with the 880 is that it rocks uncomfortably in my hand when I press certain keys. Appears the One's shape will eliminate that situation.

I sure agree with hhatkin on Devices. I can't remember the last time I pressed the "Device" key since I've imported every command I need into each activity. Coming from URC and OFA remotes it was a struggle getting away from individual devices. It took a while but once I got my head around "Activities" I never looked back.

Now, my only concern about the One is the touchscreen but I suppose I'll become accustomed to that. Several years ago I returned a Pronto because I couldn't get used to it's touchscreen.

Let's not even talk about the sketchy charge cradle!

I don't think you'll find much change in the shape Photodan, but the construction is better and the handling is positive.
The touchscreen is more for looking pretty than using - the Activity (and Device, unused) names have to be there and the only others on mine are the Favourite channels.

I always love reading these threads. Some (trying not to generalize) harmony guys just love their remotes so much, and are so full of pride because what they managed to do on their own, that they'll adjust their points, and challenges on the fly to keep themselves blind to reality.

Until you've experienced something better, you'll always believe what you have is as good as it needs to be, or should be. I just read a thread in this forum where a guy wants to select devices to power up with a button push, and have them turn on when he wants to, but he can't, because Logitech decided for him that the power button shouldn't do that. Doesn't seem like an unreasonable concept to me. Lol... the price .vs. function agruement is hilarious, because I know for a fact that a jp1 could do what he wants for a 1/10th the cost of the harmony.

Accept the fact that harmony's are basic remotes for simple control applications, (not basic systems). If you'd like to do anything...anything out of the norm, (better said...anything Logictech thinks you don't need to do). You're screwed. This xpat guy makes harmony users look like ignorant fools, when he makes claims of the remotes comparability to Crestron and RTi systems.

OP: Pros hate Harmony's for there lack of techincal support and flexibility in the field. Keep in mind they have to stand behind the products they're selling, and spec'd for the job. Harmony's are fantasic for the diy'er who just wants something simple. They're horrible for business owners. Unfortunately your experience with RTi was lack luster. Don't blame that on the remote...blame the CI that programmed it for you. It's a shame, but honestly if you can get away with the Harmony One then the T2-c was over kill most likely to begin with.

It is unreasonable if you understand how the activity model and smart state work.

If you don't want to use the activity model, then you don't need a harmony. If you accept the activity model then the harmony will seamlessly control all of your devices in one room including powering components on and off and selecting inputs as needed. And it can be setup in 30 minutes by anyone with no programming required. Anything beyond that is simply customizing for the sake of customizing - which is ok if that's what you want, but it's certainly not needed.

There are exceptions where the harmony doesn't work well - if you NEED a long macro to perform some frequently used function or if your device has unpredictable behavior. But that's the exception not the rule.

The simple fact is a CI has different requirements than a regular user. Let's just leave it at that.

Takes only one button push for me to turn on the devices I want. No it's not the off button, it's the selected activity button.

I understand the point of the pros chiming in about the in field set up of the Harmony's. If you cant log in to the net because your customer doesn't have an internet connection or don't know their WAN password or can't pick up an unsecured connection, it becomes very difficult to program and update the remote.

If you have an internet connection, yes it takes about 3 minutes to update the remote once you have made your changes, but don't the other remote options need to be updated as well as changes are made on the software? Not being sarcastic honest question.

Yes the Harmony's are for DIY's and Non-DIY's. I've seen some Pros comment that they use them even if it's just for a basic setup, and I've set up quite a few for friends. I haven't come across anything that couldn't be handled either in their setup or mine. My setup is not terribly complex, probably childs play for a CI but it simply works and works well. I'm able to control 2 systems in 2 seperate rooms with the same remote, because I have seperate activity for everything I want to do. Rarely need the devices button but it works so I dont have to look for the OEM remote as mentioned above if needed.

The software has had it's issues but they are constantly updating and addressing the issues and not simply forgetting about their customer base. Also, customer service has always been helpful if I had an issue I couldn't take care of myself. Ya, you sometimes have to get past tier 1 support but once you get to tier 2 their a lot more knowledgable.

Sorry but bang for your buck, Harmony's a keeper.

Yes - all remotes need to be updated... but an RTI download can be done in under a minute. Always - because the software is local. With Harmony - it can take anywhere from 3 - 60 minutes, depending on server load.



...still waiting for software that doesn't crash when loading a 1000. Been waiting a while now, in fact.

He can, as oman says in #38 - because Harmonys don't have power buttons it won't be called the power button, but how important is its name? He can change it to anything he likes anyway - all the better.

No he can't. I most likely didn't describe what he was trying to do properly. Regardless, this individual wanted to do something out of the norm and couldn't because of Logictech's wizard.

I don't mean to knock Harmonys. I think they are adequate remotes, gauged towards and marketed beautifully for the "joe six pack" niche, (which is the largest one). But when I see completely uneducated posts by people just spouting off, it just warrants a counter point so random RC users don't get mislead.

Even some claiming that "they do everything" is silly. Harmonys don't come remotely close, (pun intended). If someone wants to customize beyond a Harmony's capability, it shouldn't be considered fluff or over kill. Convenience was the whole point in buying a universal to begin with.

Why these threads get so out of hand are the severe reactions by both sides, CI and diy'er. Compared to what's out there, Harmonys are crap....plain and simple. They are very limited and cheaply built regardless what their owners want to think. CIs know this and are openly willing to share their opinions. Diy'ers get on the defensive. Which is understandable, know one wants to feel like a fool. But that's the problem. Don't be made to feel like a fool, because you made the right choice for you. But don't make yourself a fool by trying to pass off to others, and there by convincing yourself what you bought is the greatest thing going. Accept your choice, and be confident in it. The CIs and owners of more advanced remotes aren't wrong. They're just living at a different level in this regard.

I personally think buying a universal remote that's limited by wizard programming (harmony isn't the only one) is short sighted. But that's my opinion, and it isn't wrong. Just different than some.

Nice attitude. Can you customize harmony remotes as much as other remotes? Of course not. Do you *NEED* to customize a harmony remote to control multiple combinations of devices seamlessly? NO, and that's the point.

Aside from a few products that have quirky behavior with inputs, a harmony can be setup to control a home theater in 30 minutes or less, giving one button access to any activity including controlling lighting, drapes, etc. You press one button and everything turns on, goes to the right input and the buttons are setup to control multiple devices at the same time (volume controls A/V receiver, transport buttons control DVR, etc.).

For 90% of the people out there (probably more) - THIS IS ALL THEY NEED. They don't need fancy graphics or special buttons that call special macros. IF something doesn't work, they hit HELP and it fixes the problem automatically. Try that with a 10 year old or grandparent trying to use a non-harmony remote. Won't happen.

The other 10% that have a more complicated setup or simply WANT the customized interface don't need a Harmony.

Thanks for agreeing...


...and proving my point.

edit/addition:

"don't make yourself a fool by trying to pass off to others, and there by convincing yourself what you bought is the greatest thing going."

lol... sorry that warranted another response. This is yet another blanket statement that is misleading to the uninformed. How long has Harmony had two way communication? .....I didn't think so. So how does this miracle device know what's wrong and fixes it...? Even the actual two way capable remotes have no idea if your HDMI connected systems have sync'd properly. Try and be sensible about what you post. People use these site as resource, and they shouldn't be mislead.

I know what you're talking about, but how much of that 90% (or more as you claim) do?

Harmonys suck...! 8>P

I love these threads.... the only thing better is the one about the white van speaker salesmen. Even some of those people still think they got a great deal on awesome equipment.

You said "a guy wants to select devices to power up with a button push, and have them turn on when he wants to, but he can't".
If that's what he wants to do he can do it with any Harmony.
If that isn't what he wants to do then it wasn't a valid point.
My Harmonys do a lot of things out of the norm, but one man's norm may be higher than another's.
The "wizard" needn't stop anyone doing anything, because for most adjustments you don't use it; you use a list of all the buttons and a list of all the commands on each relevant device, and you combine them exactly the way you want them.

I haven't seen any "completely uneducated posts by people just spouting off" and - until now - haven't seen any "severe reactions".